Are we all Trussed up...

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thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by thirdcrank »

I realised I was losing touch with politics when I saw this BBC headline a couple of days ago

Liz Truss wanted government turned up to 11, says former aide

No clearer when I began to read it
Liz Truss took a "Spinal Tap approach" to government, with the volume turned up to 11, her former chief speechwriter has told the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63834307
Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Bonefishblues »

I saw that too. Just all very oddly unhinged.
thirdcrank
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Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by thirdcrank »

Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Dec 2022, 1:04pm I saw that too. Just all very oddly unhinged.
Did you understand it? I'm at the point where - on the model of somebody signing for those with hearing problems - I need an interpreter to understand the lingo.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Bonefishblues »

In terms, (and a very good analysis by Nick Robinson here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63838387 helped me, I think - particularly the 11th point) although she'd never been able to implement her radical thoughts, she'd become convinced of the efficacy of her ideas and, buoyed by the support of her electorate in the counties, all of a sudden she got the keys and the madness unfolded.
UpWrong
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Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by UpWrong »

Bonefishblues wrote: 6 Dec 2022, 1:04pm I saw that too. Just all very oddly unhinged.
She sounds like a fanatic, a "human hand grenade".
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Liz Truss=nutter put in a place she should never have been put by selfserving nutters IMHO
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Debs
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Location: Powys

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Debs »

Image
Ms Chucky left - Ms Truss right

Doppelgänger or same person?
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by reohn2 »

Debs
Now you mention it.......
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pete75
Posts: 16356
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 31 Oct 2022, 4:18pm
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 25 Oct 2022, 11:46pm Hi,
Havent read all the posts.........none actually.

So what would a hung parliment acheive...................................

More chaos :evil:

Are we so sure that the fickle voting plebs will just go "A change is as good as a rest"..........."change for change's sake"....................
You might as well toss a coin................
My hope for a hung Parliament would be more compromise and stopping the more extreme edges of different parties implementing their radical/extreme ideologies.

Ian
What's wrong with radical policies if they're successful in achieving desirable outcomes?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Psamathe
Posts: 17617
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 4:59pm
Psamathe wrote: 31 Oct 2022, 4:18pm
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 25 Oct 2022, 11:46pm Hi,
Havent read all the posts.........none actually.

So what would a hung parliment acheive...................................

More chaos :evil:

Are we so sure that the fickle voting plebs will just go "A change is as good as a rest"..........."change for change's sake"....................
You might as well toss a coin................
My hope for a hung Parliament would be more compromise and stopping the more extreme edges of different parties implementing their radical/extreme ideologies.

Ian
What's wrong with radical policies if they're successful in achieving desirable outcomes?
My impression so far is that with our party system radical policies tend to favour their own voters at the expense of those on the other side of things e.g. tax cuts for the wealthy with austerity cutting public services for those in desperate need,

I'm open to radical policies that provide a solution but need to be sure where the negative impacts fall.

Ian
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Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Cugel »

pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 4:59pm
Psamathe wrote: 31 Oct 2022, 4:18pm
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 25 Oct 2022, 11:46pm Hi,
Havent read all the posts.........none actually.

So what would a hung parliment acheive...................................

More chaos :evil:

Are we so sure that the fickle voting plebs will just go "A change is as good as a rest"..........."change for change's sake"....................
You might as well toss a coin................
My hope for a hung Parliament would be more compromise and stopping the more extreme edges of different parties implementing their radical/extreme ideologies.

Ian
What's wrong with radical policies if they're successful in achieving desirable outcomes?
It's a big "if" as "radical" generally means untried and untested.

The economic and social policies writ by government as law are notorious for generating unintended consequences, as their subject matter is usually very complex, with changes having all sorts of unforeseen knock-on effects. In addition, there's the bad habit of those writing new law to make if over-complex, obscure, ambiguous and inclusive of various implementations in some circumstances that were not foreseen but which, when they come up, have deleterious consequences.

However, some polities, including that we now inhabit, become so badly disorganised or corrupt that "radical" might have less unintended or unwanted consequences than the current dog's breakfast of a polity we have now. If the current situation in broken Britain is left to fester, we'll soon be a third world country or a failed state, with lots dying of neglect as others roam about in a highly lawless fashion.

So, bring on "radical"; but not Tory-radical, which seems to consist in more of the reactionary bigotry rendered as even more laws to privileg their new model aristocracy at the cost of trashing everything and everyone else. Bring on the Starmer, with some proper radical. Just watch out for the unexploded consequences as you remake things, not to mention the cliff edges, slippery slopes and highly reactive human "substances", not least those in The City and mass media, energised by the catalyst of the unfamiliar.

*************
Personally I'd begin by looking at successful polices of our past, other nations and those that require little change for large results.

An example might be the revival of council house building and renting like that of the post-war years, with the necessary powers, finance and standards to produce well-built eco houses that can be offered at affordable rents (i.e. without profit being made) and with supporting services such as doctors, shops, pubs, schools, public transport and all the rest built in. If we could, as a nation, manage to make all that in 1945-55, despite the war debt and degradation of everything under the bomb, why not now?

I'm sure there are other examples of successful past policies that could be revived and modernised for current conditions that would "achieve desirable outcomes".

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
pete75
Posts: 16356
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 6:30pm
pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 4:59pm
Psamathe wrote: 31 Oct 2022, 4:18pm
My hope for a hung Parliament would be more compromise and stopping the more extreme edges of different parties implementing their radical/extreme ideologies.

Ian
What's wrong with radical policies if they're successful in achieving desirable outcomes?
My impression so far is that with our party system radical policies tend to favour their own voters at the expense of those on the other side of things e.g. tax cuts for the wealthy with austerity cutting public services for those in desperate need,

I'm open to radical policies that provide a solution but need to be sure where the negative impacts fall.

Ian
Most of the Atlee government's major policies were considered extremely radical at the time and yes, things like the NHS were designed to benefit the sort of folk who voted Labour - what do you think was wrong with that? To my mind a government often needs to develop new, radical policies for change to solve problems and/or improve people's lives. Just carrying on with the same old policies time and again means things will not improve but gradually decline when it was the same old which led to them in the first place.

The Tory party exists to represent the wealthy. Nothing wrong with that of course - the wealthy are as entitled to have their interests represented as any other group in society. If they're voted into power then they should have policies that favour the people they represent. Where they act wrongly is in hiding this, telling lies about things like levelling up, improving the NHS etc etc. They have to do this to attract the votes of all the Tuppeny Tories who elect them.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
wheelyhappy99
Posts: 232
Joined: 5 Jul 2020, 11:12am

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by wheelyhappy99 »

JK Galbraith:

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
Psamathe
Posts: 17617
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by Psamathe »

pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 8:03pm
Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 6:30pm
pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 4:59pm

What's wrong with radical policies if they're successful in achieving desirable outcomes?
My impression so far is that with our party system radical policies tend to favour their own voters at the expense of those on the other side of things e.g. tax cuts for the wealthy with austerity cutting public services for those in desperate need,

I'm open to radical policies that provide a solution but need to be sure where the negative impacts fall.

Ian
Most of the Atlee government's major policies were considered extremely radical at the time and yes, things like the NHS were designed to benefit the sort of folk who voted Labour - what do you think was wrong with that? ....
Nothing. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Radical can mean different things to different people. A massive range of possible policies could be described as radical. To run through then all with different adjectives would be impossible so simplified. Just because you list a radical policy that was a good idea and I'm sure there are many others and many hundreds of others that are not good ideas.

So arguing about the meaning of an adjective is daft. Go pick an argument with somebody else.

Ian
pete75
Posts: 16356
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Are we all Trussed up...

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 9:21pm
pete75 wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 8:03pm
Psamathe wrote: 7 Dec 2022, 6:30pm
My impression so far is that with our party system radical policies tend to favour their own voters at the expense of those on the other side of things e.g. tax cuts for the wealthy with austerity cutting public services for those in desperate need,

I'm open to radical policies that provide a solution but need to be sure where the negative impacts fall.

Ian
Most of the Atlee government's major policies were considered extremely radical at the time and yes, things like the NHS were designed to benefit the sort of folk who voted Labour - what do you think was wrong with that? ....
Nothing. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Radical can mean different things to different people. A massive range of possible policies could be described as radical. To run through then all with different adjectives would be impossible so simplified. Just because you list a radical policy that was a good idea and I'm sure there are many others and many hundreds of others that are not good ideas.

So arguing about the meaning of an adjective is daft. Go pick an argument with somebody else.

Ian
Who's arguing about the meaning of an adjective? The founding of the NHS is, without a doubt, the most radical health policy enacted by any UK government ever. The complete shake up of secondary education at the time was radical. The nationalisation of the railways was too. The introduction of a comprehensive planning system in the 1947 act similarly radical.

It's not radical policies that have caused problems, rather the watering down of the radical policies put into practice by the first Atlee government that's causing problems for a lot of folk today.

What you describe as a radical policy, tax cuts for the wealthy and the poor becoming poorer isn't. It's just Tories being Tories.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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