Cycling UK Forum

If 9 speed is 1mm to pull 1.7mm per shift and 10 speed mtb is 1.2mm at the derailleur 10 speed mtb should be less sensitive to friction shifting as the lever would have to move more per shift.

Does a simplex retrofriction shifter have enough movement for a 10 mtb derailleur?

Simplex RF shifters (at least Gipiemme Delrin version) will shift 8/9-speed shimano RDs across 9/10/11 speed cassettes, but I don't know about 10-speed RDs.

Large barrel retro friction shifters for 10/11 speed.
Read carefully and the regular dia-compe, a simplex copy, is just able to shift 10 cogs.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/shi ... t-shifters

fossala wrote: ↑5 Sep 2022, 4:57pm
Does a simplex retrofriction shifter have enough movement for a 10 mtb derailleur?

I don't know a specific answer, but thread a sleeve of stripped electrical wire onto the inner right up to the nipple so it increases the effective diameter of the shifter.

I'm seriously considering going over to friction shifting, and if the levers I buy don't have enough cable pull, the above is what I will do, so I won't worry about the diameter of the levers.

esasjl wrote: ↑5 Sep 2022, 6:07pm Simplex RF shifters (at least Gipiemme Delrin version) will shift 8/9-speed shimano RDs across 9/10/11 speed cassettes, but I don't know about 10-speed RDs.

In more detail, Simplex (Gipiemme) LJ 4012 Retrofriction shifters
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/si ... can_4.html
pull 23 mm of cable with about 160° arc. This shifts RD-M953 (9-speed XTR) across CS-4100 (11-42 10-speed). I suspect it will not be sufficient for 10-speed RD.

Barrel diameters of Simplex Retrofriction vs. some current modern down tube levers:

13mm - Simplex Retrofriction
20mm - Dia Compe power ratchet
20mm - Shimano Dura Ace 9 speed
30mm - Dia Compe ENE 11 speed power ratchet

Adding 1mm for the approximate diameter of the gear cable, and using pi x diameter to calculate the circumference, and halving that to correspond to 180 degrees maximum range of movement of the lever, gives the following total maximum possible cable pulls:

22mm - Simplex Retrofriction*
33mm - Dia Compe power ratchet
33mm - Shimano Dura Ace 9 speed
49mm - Dia Compe ENE 11 speed power ratchet

* Confirmed by measuring ~11mm of cable pulled when the lever is rotated 90 degrees.

Unless it was a case of making do with what I had, I would not want to use a lever that had to be moved through nearly all 180 degrees - I think that ideally the lever position for the largest sprocket should be around 130 to 150 degrees. If buying new levers I would get ones most appropriate for the rear derailleur.

In my experience the power ratchet used in Dia Compe's levers can cope with more cable tension without slipping, compared with Simplex's Retrofriction mechanism.

Excellent info!
Thank you muchly.

On the strength of this thread, I've just fitted my old Campag Victory friction DT levers onto Moulton instead of the Shimano Dura Ace indexed 10sp.

TBH, I've never been entirely happy with them. They - and the Shimano DX rear mech - have needed lots of index tweaking over the years. No such worries on Mercian with 10sp Campag and Ergos. Fit, tweak, and forget.

So ............when and if this weather stops chucking it down horribly - I'll be out for a test ride ASAP.

If it's a success, and I have no reason to expect that they'll be fine, I'll be selling the Dura Ace levers. Watch this space.

Been busy with the front mech issues, but I've fitted my Campag Victory friction shifters.
They were used for many many MANY years on Mercian, and fitted for a few weeks on Moulton before I bought the Dura Ace levers.

Here's a photo of them fitted.
It'll be a week? before I'll trial them.
Note the fact that they've not been used for a few years!
They will smooth off as the miles increase.

Ok, I’m using a 9 speed mech M772 and it takes 180 degrees to shift my 8 speed cassette. This will be the same for 9 and 10 speed but with smaller increments. As a side not if anyone is looking a guy has a stash of retrofriction levers for £40 a pair. Arrived in a few days.

Less than 180deg for my Campag DT levers and Deore XT with Shimano 105 10sp cassette.

Just checked, so I know what I'm talking about ......... but it's approx 100deg or less, but more than 90deg.
Lever vertical in smallest cog, and just below horizontal in biggest cog.

Mick F wrote: ↑13 Sep 2022, 8:57am Less than 180deg for my Campag DT levers and Deore XT with Shimano 105 10sp cassette.

Just checked, so I know what I'm talking about ......... but it's approx 100deg or less, but more than 90deg.
Lever vertical in smallest cog, and just below horizontal in biggest cog.

I would be interested to know the barrel diameter of the lever to see how it compares with the measurements of a few levers I posted upthread (I measured using a vernier caliper).

Ok, I can do that. Give me a few minutes or so, and I can measure.
Moulton is on the workstand outside at the moment, so I'll leave off from here soon, and get back to this.

19mm

Triple chainset 10sp cassette.
Campag Victory friction DT levers.

Top Gear.
I think I'll adjust the cable length on the front mech so it's "lower" on the outer ring.

61t front, 12t rear. Bottom Gear.
34t front, 30t rear.

If you need more or less cable pull this is where a Simplex demultiplacator comes in useful. If you can find one. DIY idea?