MATE Bikes Recalled as Too Powerful

[Carlton green]

It seems to me that the answer does mostly lie with the controller.

The controller could be permanently configured such that the maximum electrical power output was capped at 250 Watt and that cap should be of a type that’s not accessible to the customer to modify. Yes, it might be theoretically possible for a motor to support short bursts of a higher power and it might be possible for fit riders to produce high output for a short period but as far as I’m concerned both aren’t relevant to a bike with electrical assistance.

It should be a case of you have a maximum assistance of 250 Watt (electrical) out of the controller up to a set speed. Of course some set-ups will be poor at converting the electrical power out of the controller into mechanical power, that’s unfortunate but it would focus minds into providing efficient power conversion that’s fair to all - or as fair as it reasonably can be.

[Nearholmer]

With the right combination of controller and software, you can ‘shape’ the performance characteristic to virtually anything within the available envelope set by the physical design of motor and batteries, but you do need sensors to give relevant feedback to permit that. It’s ordinary stuff to do with all sorts of electric traction, including blending power input from more than one source, e.g. battery plus an internal combustion engine, or battery plus human legs. And, it is relatively simple to include regen breaking to top-up battery charge, or even ‘over pedalling’ on downhill bits to top-up charge, although the later might be confusingly counter-intuitive to use.

But, as Cugel hinted, the more sophisticated, the higher the cost.

[MelW]

I think it is sad that traditional cycling has surrendered to these motor cycles. Many people have two good legs but are just too lazy to use them. I was hugely obese a few years ago but with effort and determination I managed to lose a lot of weight I had gained. There are no short cuts. Ebikes are just people who can't be bothered to put the effort in because they are lazy. The cycling powers that be and organisations such as the CTC should not support nor encourage their use.

[Barrowman]

What Melw said.

I can see an arguement for the elderly cyclist getting a bit if assistance from such a machine, but my overriding experience of e bikes is folk with little or no road sense expecting everyone to avoid their frankly dangerous progress in both cars and on the bike.

[Carlton green]

I think it is sad that traditional cycling has surrendered to these motor cycles. Many people have two good legs but are just too lazy to use them. I was hugely obese a few years ago but with effort and determination I managed to lose a lot of weight I had gained. There are no short cuts. Ebikes are just people who can't be bothered to put the effort in because they are lazy. The cycling powers that be and organisations such as the CTC should not support nor encourage their use.

I’m not unsympathetic to that stance but it does fly in the face of experience with respected local cyclists. I recently chanced upon my local recreational group and have similarly chanced upon long time cyclists who now use electrical assistance. In all the cases it has been the case that poor health in advancing years has restricted what they could do and electrical assistance has enabled them to continue cycling.

As for being overweight it progressively happens to people as they struggle through day to day life, it happened to me and it would be misleadingly simplistic to suggest that obesity was self inflicted. I’ve always been active and tried to cycle when and where I could yet I still ended up with a BMI well within the obese range, since that time I’ve lost weight and am now in the middle of the overweight range - and thinner than the majority of people that I meet. I continue to exercise and try to thoughtfully moderate what I consume; but not everyone is blessed with reasonable health and the like to enable better courses of action.

I don’t use an e-bike myself and I hope to not to have to resort to using one. However should it become a case of use one or give up cycling then I’ll adopt one, 250 Watts should be enough … Indeed, I’m of the view that 250 Watt should be the limit of electrical power into any drive motor and that other ratings both deliberately confuse the customer and bend the law.

[Cugel]

I think it is sad that traditional cycling has surrendered to these motor cycles. Many people have two good legs but are just too lazy to use them. I was hugely obese a few years ago but with effort and determination I managed to lose a lot of weight I had gained. There are no short cuts. Ebikes are just people who can't be bothered to put the effort in because they are lazy. The cycling powers that be and organisations such as the CTC should not support nor encourage their use.

A judgemental post, inclusive of an exhortation for an intolerant policy by cycling organisations; and apparently based on an ignorance of how e-bikes work.

If you were a neighbour, I'd offer you the opportunity to ride an e-bike so you could see how an e-bike actually works - as a support for your own effort and only up to 15.5mph. You'd discover that "lazy" is not an option.

Cugel

[PH]

I think it is sad that traditional cycling has surrendered to these motor cycles. Many people have two good legs but are just too lazy to use them. I was hugely obese a few years ago but with effort and determination I managed to lose a lot of weight I had gained. There are no short cuts. Ebikes are just people who can't be bothered to put the effort in because they are lazy. The cycling powers that be and organisations such as the CTC should not support nor encourage their use.

What's wrong with lazy? Cycling is whatever the rider wants it to be. Plenty of fit and healthy people choosing to use E-bikes, they don't have to justify that to you or anyone else. Some people's narrow minded idea of what cycling should be, is one of the things that puts others off.
For myself - If I wrote a list of my reasons for each cycle trip I make, then tick those unchanged by using an E-bike, sometimes it'd be all of them and sometimes none. I don't own a car, so some of those E-bike trips would be replaced by public transport, some by cycling and some wouldn't get made at all.
I've been to the farm shop this morning on the E-bike, I'll do 4 or 5 hours delivery work this afternoon also on the E-bike. Today is the first time this week on any bike, after the weekend's 212 mile club ride to the coast and back, not on the E-bike. Lazy me!

[Nearholmer]

Some people's narrow minded idea of what cycling should be, is one of the things that puts others off.

Very true, and I can personally see nothing wrong in people riding e-assisted bikes, scooters etc, provided that any they use on shared-use paths, cycleways, bridleways etc are consistent in performance with a reasonably fit person riding a pushbike.

There are as many subtly different reasons for people choosing to use e-bikes as there are people choosing, and not everyone who doesn't ride a bike at all, or chooses to use an e-bike is overweight and under-exercised, let alone lazy, once again the reasons for that choice are varied and subtle.

E-bikes even have the potential to act as an alternative to car use, reducing the number of car trips that people make, although I'm deeply sceptical about whether in the UK they actually do to any useful extent. Most of what I observe is them being used as alternatives to mopeds (delivery riders), allowing older keen cyclists to keep up the pace/distance, and for casual liesure/exercise by people who would otherwise barely cycle or not cycle at all. Hire e-scooters do seem to get used as "transport" locally, whereas hire e-bikes less so, which I think might be because hire e-bikes are such ponderous anvils on wheels, whereas the scooters are pretty nippy, and require no pedalling!

I dont use one myself, but I don't discount the possibility that I might one day, if bits of me fail in a way that makes it necessary.

[Debs]

[Nearholmer]

Does US (or is it Canadian?) and Iseali law permit e-bikes that are significantly different in performance characteristic from a reasonably fit person on a pushbike?

Because, if it does, that might explain some of what the guy in the film highlights. He talks about people "hopping on and hitting thirty", which isnt a very realistic scenario on a legal UK e-bike. I think he might be talking about what would be classed as e-mopeds here, so things that here are supposed only to be ridden after training.

In short, be careful about "read across".

[foxyrider]

Does US (or is it Canadian?) and Iseali law permit e-bikes that are significantly different in performance characteristic from a reasonably fit person on a pushbike?

Because, if it does, that might explain some of what the guy in the film highlights. He talks about people "hopping on and hitting thirty", which isnt a very realistic scenario on a legal UK e-bike. I think he might be talking about what would be classed as e-mopeds here, so things that here are supposed only to be ridden after training.

In short, be careful about "read across".

The US certainly permits the use of unrestricted e bikes as dp several other countries around the world.

[Bmblbzzz]

One thing that e-bikes have made possible is cargo bikes accessible to those without thighs of Hoy and lungs of Vingegaard. They are becoming more and more common, both for traditional car roles (eg taking kids to school) and for small van roles (courier work and deliveries).

[PH]

Does US (or is it Canadian?) and Iseali law permit e-bikes that are significantly different in performance characteristic from a reasonably fit person on a pushbike?

The US certainly permits the use of unrestricted e bikes as dp several other countries around the world.

The US has a different set of regulations to the EU and UK. I don't think they regulate the power, but they do the speed.
Three classes, the lowest is 20mph with pedaling, the highest 28mph with no requirement to pedal. Where and how each can be used varies between states.