Right to Repair???

[Revolution]

I have a Brooks C17 Cambium saddle which after 5 years of light use has started to split along the underside of the front. As the metal frame is perfectly fine and is screwed to the top I assumed that I would be able to get a new top piece and simply unscrew the old one and replace with a new one But have just been informed by Brooks that they are 'not available to buy separately as replacement parts' It seems that the Right To Repair legislation needs repairing

[Paulkentuk]

... I typically then go put onto Trust pilot and leave a damning review.
I then buy a similar replacement product from a rival supplier, & once I've done that, I email their customer Service, and tell them I've done that !

Pauk

[Mick F]

https://www.brooksengland.com/en_uk/c17 ... 2-item-224
£105 new.

How much would it cost in time and effort for a new rubber "leather" top and to fit it?
You should have bought a Team Professional like both of mine in the first place.

Sorry, I'm being difficult, as usual.

It doesn't absolve Brooks from selling stuff wot only lasts five years, and I would have hoped that they would have sold you a new one at a discount.

Have you asked?

[simonhill]

A few years ago Brooks offered to replace the leather of my sprung saddle. Not cheap and I could get a new one on offer somewhere cheaper, so I didn't take them up on their offer. I didn't ask if I could buy the leather for DIY.

I don't know how those rubber saddles are made or where. Is it possible that they don't have any tops because they are only supplied with complete saddles from a secret rubber saddle factory.

[rareposter]

It seems that the Right To Repair legislation needs repairing

Given that Right to Repair covers consumer electronics, it's completely irrelevant to your situation anyway.
I think the Cambium are made in Italy and shipped over complete so a repair by "Brooks" would involve posting it back to Italy and if they haven't got excess covers in stock anyway then that is also irrelevant. The whole supply chain is in disruption at the moment, there's still a load of post-Covid supply/demand issues so that's part of the problem.

Plus it's 5 years old.

They'd repair one of the British-made leather saddles (probably at a cost to you as it's >2 years old unless you'd bought their extended warranty) but I can see their argument on this one.

See if you can find one on ebay and cannibalise it - it's definitely possible to split them, there's the Torx screws at each end.

[Bmblbzzz]

Right to Repair laws don't cover DIY repairs anyway. At least that's my reading of the official summary:

The UK Government has introduced new ecodesign and labelling requirements for specified electrical products sold in Great Britain. The Ecodesign for Energy-Related Products and Energy Information Regulations 2021 (SI 2021 No. 745), sometimes referred to as the “Right to Repair Regulations”, were made on 18 June 2021, accompanied by Explanatory Memorandum. Most of the provisions came into force on 1 July 2021.

The Regulations aim to increase producer responsibility, reduce energy usage and electrical waste, and enable consumers to identify the most energy efficient products on the market. Following the UK leaving the EU, the UK chose to mirror requirements in equivalent EU regulations.

The ‘right to repair’ provides professional repairers with access to spare parts and technical information from July 2021, but manufacturers have a grace period of up to 2 years to make spare parts available.

The key section is the last paragraph.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-9302/

[Psamathe]

I would not expect the "Right to Repair" to force all manufacturers to sell any component to every product - that would be ludicrously expensive and replacement parts would become rather expensive. Break a part of anything and expect that part to be available as a spare under "Right to Repair" - just look at how many parts most products contain these days.

Often replacement parts come as a kit for repairing something e.g. my BB7 pad replacement I purchased included both pads and spring. Should I demand that I want only pads or only spring?

If I were Brooks I would have said "We can sell you a C17 repair kit that includes both saddle top and rails for £500".

Ian

[Revolution]

If I were Brooks I would have said "We can sell you a C17 repair kit that includes both saddle top and rails for £500".

Ian

That is a bit ridiculous - the 2 components are screwed together. The 2 components are presumably manufactured separately and then assembled and then sold as a single unit. To sell one of the items separately doesn't to me at least, seem beyond the wit of man.

[PH]

Brooks leather saddles have a ten year guarantee if you register them, a standard two years if you don't.
When first released, the Cambrian saddles came with the same, but the failure rate soon curtailed that. I bought one at the time of the change, despite it still being on the retailers website and the registration info in the box, I couldn't register it. I had a feeling I might be able to pursue it, but in the end didn't, it lasted about six years.
Despite the disappointment with Brooks service, the C17 is my favorite saddle, I've bought another three and the all weather version does seem to be more robust.

[oliverjames]

Hello PH,

I have the same problem, a Cambium saddle that lasted about 6 years before splits developed in the cover. I had the same response from Brooks, one that I consider to be totally unacceptable.

These saddles are expensive and should last a lot longer given the purchase price, particularly as the failure appears to be due to rapid degradation of the material used. Note that on all the saddles I have used in my 50 years cycling I have never experienced a failure of this type.

I was astonished at Brooks response given that it appears a very simple task to remove and refit the cover.

I've tried to prolong the life of mine by punching holes at the tip of the split. This is a standard method for stop crack runs in any material. Had I imagined that Brooks would take such an un-commercial, un-ecologic stance I'd have done this sooner.

[rogerzilla]

... I typically then go put onto Trust pilot and leave a damning review.
I then buy a similar replacement product from a rival supplier, & once I've done that, I email their customer Service, and tell them I've done that !

Pauk

I know of someone who took similar action and was sued by the firm (not Brooks, a bike manufacturer). It comes down to who can afford the best lawyers.

[colin54]

I attempted to fit a new plastic cantle plate on one of these a while back as the bag loops had broken.
I managed to get two of the torx screws out after much cursing, but the other two resisted my best efforts.
There is no way to hold the rivet-like head of the fixing, it just turns within the rubber saddle top as you try to undo the screw, weirdly two of the holes for the screws have a square hole (to resist turning) in the saddle top and two circular - the middle pair. I eventually attempted to drill out the torx screw head with no success, but called it a day after I burnt my finger on on of the 'rivet' tops (aluminium), heat conduction from the drilling !. I'll maybe drill these out from aluminium end and replace with countersunk screws. The screws had thread lock on them whether from the factory or elsewhere I know not (second-hand).

You can buy the replacement screws.

[Jules59]

Off topic but related :
There is a wonderful company based in Helston Cornwall called APDiving, that makes, probably, the best SCUBA diving bouyancy compensation jackets in the world.
https://www.apdiving.eu/shop/en/bcd-ope ... /bcds.html

We bought ours 24 yeras ago. My son's had a seam fail recently. We posted it back to them and it was repaired - they sowed in a new section of material and hemmed the seam.
All parts for the valves and connections are still availble even though this model was discontinued in 2007.

[colin54]

It does seem strange that you can buy the rails, the nose piece, the cantle plate and the screws/rivets but not the top.
https://www.brooksengland.com/en_eu/mai ... parts.html
It was £9 postage from Italy on top of the cantle plate price.
I note that you can extend the two year warranty on leather saddles from Brooks to ten years, but I don't see the same facility for the 'Cambium' saddles.

[Brucey]

I have a Brooks C17 Cambium saddle which after 5 years of light use has started to split along the underside of the front.......

I would probably attempt to repair that, by using a patch on the underside, trapped between the frame and the top. The front of the patch, being trapped, would see no 'peel' forces. The rear of the patch could be a lot larger, with a pointy edge, so there isn't an abrupt transition. The patch itself would need to contain a strong but flexible element. such as a woven nylon fabric. The body of the patch needs to be able to flex slightly, so maybe the best thing would be to first 'cast' the repair patch in situ, using a barrier layer (eg. cling film) to prevent adhesion. The patch itself could be made of multiple layers of woven nylon fabric, held together with PVA adhesive, a sort of synthetic leather if you like. Finally, the patch would be bonded in position using a different adhesive, eg. a contact adhesive.

It certainly won't hurt to file a nice radius onto the Al nosepiece, but alone, it is unlikely to be effective as a cure, because there is a stress concentration here anyway; this is where 'proper' Brooks saddles sometimes split too.