Another upgrade dilemma

[GideonReade]

More experienced heads may guide me here...

Spent most of my life as a cycle tourist, albeit with huge periods off. But in retirement I find myself often in faster company for weekday rides. One of these gangs I'm definitely a weak link, and struggling. So I'm considering whether my friends distinctly posher bicycles may leave me disadvantaged, and whether an upgrade is useful.

In the past I haven't really been interested in small gains, as it was ok to go at the speed I went at. So this is new to me. And, I can't really match my friends budgets, some of those bikes cost more than my budget for a year of full time touring - including a new bike!

Difficulty is increased as now (late Sept), the summer bike might soon yield to a more weatherproof mount, so TWO upgrades might be needed.

Me: 59, 5'10" 1.78m, 75Kg. Need hoods about level with saddle nowadays, as do most of the gang. Rides are typically around 50mile 75km. On the Sussex coastal plain.

Summer bike: A 2002ish basic Pinnarelo. Ally frame, carbon forks, 2x9 ergopower, only just got to its second chain, runs sweetly. New Michelin Power Road 25mm tyres. I know it's a bit overweight (maybe by 2Kg compared to top bikes), and it is very high geared. But the challenging group rarely does hills, so the gearing isn't an issue at present. I kind of figure the ally frame will be rather lacking in comfort, but quite efficient? Am I right or wrong? Is his (or his) S-Works really much faster? Would spending £2K on a new carbon budget racer help? It's just my legs, isn't it? Shall I stick to letting their tyres down?

Winter bike: 1986 Overburys 531ST tourer. Replacement 3x8 BES gears, fairly new wheels from Spa, to suit its max 28mm tyre size, on LX hubs. Full mudguards and until this year still has a rack on. Wooden Schwalbe Marathons (1Kg each!) obviously don't help. Clearly, quite a bit can be done to speed up this beloved old fossil, especially as I now tour on something else, so it needs no luggage. And, it's due an overhaul & respray. Maybe it could be treated to Campag's 2x11 Chorus gears. But is it worth it? Leaving cost/benefit aside, will this ole touring frame be inefficient and rubbery?

All advice appreciated. Whether I take it or not!

[fastpedaller]

I'm forced to say ...... It's mainly the engine that matters, you'll maybe gain a couple of seconds per mile by spending thousands of pounds.
Close-fitting clothing will probably give more advantage than any bike parts.

[nigel8322]

You seem to have a pretty quick bike already and shaving a couple of kg off is more effectively done from the rider than the bike. Changing to Conti GP 5000 would save you a couple of watts (negligible). Other than that it's more training or find a slower group!

[peetee]

I am still riding 90’s steel bikes and don’t feel at a disadvantage against my carbon club mates.
In my experience top-tier carbon might make a difference to athletes but in a club scenario where the bikes are not being pushed to their limits it matters not a jot.
Given that your riding position isn’t the same as formerly perhaps some advice would be the best call to check you are getting the best out of yourself?

[TrevA]

I’d stick with your summer bike, as is, but you definitely need to change the tyres on your winter bike. At the very least, something like a 28mm Continental Gatorskin. You could go for an even faster tyre but then you are sacrificing puncture resistance. I ride Gatorskins in winter on my heavy winter bike, and don’t have trouble keeping up if I’m reasonably fit (I’m 105kg, so obviously get dropped on hills, but I’m fine on the flat, and v. fast downhill!)

My friend bought a carbon winter bike (Ribble 365 - no longer made) in the hope that it would help him to keep up, but it didn’t make any difference. Another friend has recently bought a Ribble Electric-assist bike, he’s now first up any hills, but he still gets dropped if the speed on the flat goes above about 17mph, as the assistance cuts out at 15.5mph.

[iandusud]

Saving a couple of kilos on the weight of the bike will make very little difference in terms of keeping up with the group, particularly as you say the rides aren't all that hilly. My winter bike is probably 2.5kg heavier than my summer bike, and although the summer bike feels faster (it accelerates better) any difference in overall speed on a group ride in virtually nil. As others have said maybe change tyres for something faster but just ride at your pace. If the other guys in the group aren't happy with that I would suggest that you don't ride with them. Personally I really enjoy group rides and am always happy to ride at the pace of the slowest rider.

[GideonReade]

Thanks all, so far.

I shouldn't create the impression that I get abandoned, that's not the case, everyone'stoo nice for that. Nonetheless I am clearly a subclass down, and I don't want to cause the other riders to marr their training by having to wait or ease off too much. Of course, one or other of us will always be slowest, the group will span a range. Just not too big a range.

I ride with some other groups too. In that company I have no problem keeping up. However, there's a tier above, it might be nice to try that level

Did anyone have any quantitative info on the potential loss of pedalling power on the old 531ST frame versus a more racy modern, frame? I mean not just the years and material, but also the design intent. The ole tourer has a nice cushy ride, even on 28mm Marathon tyres, but there is a sense of flex. OTOH energy put into a spring isn't lost...

[Jamesh]

Yeap I'd think you want some lighter more aerodynamic wheels at least.

Something like cero ar30 / kinlin 30 would be great without breaking the bank.

Lighter and more aero.

I notice the difference going from 32h trad wheels to rs10 and then to Reynolds solitudes (simalar to ar30) and then to durace c24 if on the hills.

So a pair of half decent wheels will make the most difference imho. (With decent tyres obvs)

[GideonReade]

Hmm, yes, and I could experimentally nick them off the wife's bike.

Ah, assuming we're talking about the old tourer, slight problem with her and any other ready mades is the bike has 135 OLN rear for MTB hub.

Wheels certainly could be looked at, although those wheels are relatively new, they weren't designed for speed. What are the faster options for 135 OLN hubs & rim brakes?

I haven't ridden the old tourer in the fast ride before, not since it got so fast. I'm also a bit concerned that the wide ratio 3x8 triple (11-32 IIR) will leave me struggling to find a comfy cadence. The BES are also not so ideal in a tight group (at the back, of course). However, resolution of that also involves thinking about the rear hub. Which makes my head hurt.

[cycle tramp]

More experienced heads may guide me here...

Spent most of my life as a cycle tourist, albeit with huge periods off. But in retirement I find myself often in faster company for weekday rides. One of these gangs I'm definitely a weak link, and struggling. So I'm considering whether my friends distinctly posher bicycles may leave me disadvantaged, and whether an upgrade is useful.

All advice appreciated. Whether I take it or not!

I'd upgrade my friends. If they're not prepared to slow or wait for you then £¿€& 'em. Do you own things and enjoy cycling at your own pace

[djnotts]

I am now too slow to keep pace with even local CTC "Easy" Ride if any hills involved so I simply make own way/route to lunch stops! They would wait, but why should I dictate their pace?
My full carbon with lowered gearing is approx 10% faster on tarmac-only routes than my usual comfy 90s mtbs, but drops and stis leave me with much hand pain for at least a day, so that's about to be sold.
I have one mate who is happy with occasional slow meander, so I don't always ride alone!
If you feel the need to keep up with the faster folk, then as above expensive, light, wheels and tyres the best way to go. Carbon will be "better" than alu IMO/E, more from the comfort than the loss of a couple of lbs.

[iandusud]

Thanks all, so far.

I shouldn't create the impression that I get abandoned, that's not the case, everyone'stoo nice for that. Nonetheless I am clearly a subclass down, and I don't want to cause the other riders to marr their training by having to wait or ease off too much. Of course, one or other of us will always be slowest, the group will span a range. Just not too big a range.

I ride with some other groups too. In that company I have no problem keeping up. However, there's a tier above, it might be nice to try that level

I think the most important factor is that you enjoy your cycling. I ride with a club and I can ride comfortably with the "steadies". I have also ridden a few times with the "mediums" and have kept up but not really enjoyed pushing myself that hard.

Some have suggested more aerodynamic wheels. These could potentially make a difference to your speed but by how much depends on how fast you ride. But I get the impression that the sort of pace you're riding at that it would make very little difference, but more importantly if you're riding in a group surely any aero benefit would only be achieved when riding on the front. It is for this reason that I have never opted for deep section rims. I'm just not that fast a rider and I'd rather gain a bit of weight loss for going up the hills over speed gains going down them.

[mig]

maybe the rest of the 'gang haven't had the "huge periods" off the bike? i think if you now ride more regularly then you'll gradually settle in to the pace.

as to the bike - change the tyres on the tourer and stick with that until you know for sure that the engine is becoming stronger.

enjoy the rides.

[GideonReade]

Thanks again.

Mig - the huge periods off were before Easter 2016, thereafter I was free to ride anytime. And most of 2019 off with medical stuff. But 16/17/18 and since 2019 I've been hard at it. So I'm not sure how far I am off my potential. I can't really claim my "training" is very organised.

Oddly, I just rode today after four or five weeks off, but the last two spent hillwalking. Result is mighty legs - took hill X a gear higher than before - but heart and lungs underperformed.

Off topic in my own thread? It's all about the bike(s)...

[rareposter]

Summer bike: A 2002ish basic Pinnarelo. Ally frame, carbon forks, 2x9 ergopower, only just got to its second chain, runs sweetly. New Michelin Power Road 25mm tyres. I know it's a bit overweight (maybe by 2Kg compared to top bikes), and it is very high geared. But the challenging group rarely does hills, so the gearing isn't an issue at present. I kind of figure the ally frame will be rather lacking in comfort, but quite efficient? Am I right or wrong? Is his (or his) S-Works really much faster? Would spending £2K on a new carbon budget racer help? It's just my legs, isn't it? Shall I stick to letting their tyres down?

Only just got to second chain on a 20 year old bike?!

I've got a similar era bike - my ex race bike - and it's lovely. However, my 2022 midrange carbon bike is faster, more comfortable, stiffer and more aero without even trying. There's nothing special about it, just a 105 mechanical groupset, alloy wheels and the frame is "entry level" carbon rather than £££ S-Works level but it rides noticeably more responsively than my (previously top-end) alloy bike. One thing that does *really* help is disc brakes; the bike is far faster on descents due to the extra control and power of discs.

I would buy a new bike - you can pick up some excellent entry level carbon bikes for £2000 - £3000 - and then "retire" your old Pinarello to winter duties with some new tyres and mudguards.