Lights blinding pedestrians

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Mr Tom
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Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Mr Tom »

I've got a B + M Lumotec front light, mounted on a fork crown bracket. I normally have the focussed, brightest bit about 10 metres ahead I think, well far enough to light up the road or trail to give me a chance to react if I see something.

Anyway, I've found a few times recently when riding on a path by the river that people have being covering their eyes as I've approached them. Today it happened twice and I actually stopped the second time and asked the couple I was passing if it was blinding them and they said yes. Just wondering if other people have this problem. I don't know what else I can do, it's mounted way below eye level and should be shining on the path, not in people's eyes.
Jdsk
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Jdsk »

Yes. There's always a risk of it happening.

When I set up lamps I include this in the testing as well as the illumination of the road and the visibility of the lamp.

There's quite a lot about this in the archives but it tends to get caught up in units of measurement and German technical standards.

But we use B + M headlamps and some of them are on the fork crown and one even lower. Have you had a chance to adjust it since the conversation?

Jonathan

PS: Thanks for the consideration for other people.
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Mr Tom
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Mr Tom »

Well it's actually been a bit loose for ages so I just adjusted it by hand. I've got the bright bit shining much nearer to the front wheel. I should go and tighten it actually.

I think the couple were really shocked that I stopped and were really nice to me! I told them I'd do some experiments with it anyway.

Where I cycle off road it's normally either light enough not to really need the lights, or when it gets dark there aren't many people there, so it's not a massive issue for me. I was just surprised that people were having problems with it.
cycle tramp
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by cycle tramp »

Dear Mr, Mrs and Gender Netural* Bike Light Manufacturers,
The race of who can make the brightest/lightest/longer lasting bike light has now been raced. What's next is controllability. Bright light when there is noone to dazzle, less light when we are at risk of dazzling. With this in mind - can we have an adjustable bicycle headlamp mount, where by the angle of the headlamp is on a pivot, and controlled by a cable mounted to a friction lever on the handlebars
Many thanks
Cycletramp

(*work's diversity & social inclusion course)
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hoogerbooger
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by hoogerbooger »

Dippable lights would be good/ some way to change between very focused/wider field.

When driving down local country lanes here, I'm dazzled by bike lights surprisingly often. More controllability would be good so we can get the benefits of brighter lighting without creating difficulties.

Glad you're trying to do what you can with your set-up.
old fangled
jois
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by jois »

hoogerbooger wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 9:57pm Dippable lights would be good/ some way to change between very focused/wider field.

When driving down local country lanes here, I'm dazzled by bike lights surprisingly often. More controllability would be good so we can get the benefits of brighter lighting without creating difficulties.

Glad you're trying to do what you can with your set-up.
If you mount a maglite style light. You can do just that. With a power Drop switch and a focus changer
slowster
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by slowster »

Mr Tom wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 8:10pm I normally have the focussed, brightest bit about 10 metres ahead I think, well far enough to light up the road or trail to give me a chance to react if I see something.
I think you might have the beam angled significantly higher than it is *designed* to be. It might be instructive if you compared your beam with the photograph of the beam pattern for your particular model on B&M's website. For example, the beam pattern for an 80 lux light below shows a cut-off that should be well below head hight of anyone in front of the beam.

Are you using a light with a significantly lower output, and compensating for that by angling the beam up? The 30 lux beam pattern in the second photograph has a similar hotspot to the 80 lux, but there is much less light thrown onto the ground further ahead of the hotspot, so angling the light upwards to 'stretch' the hotspot further forward might seem a good idea at first, but is inappropriate because it will dazzle people.

Image
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo- ... sndi.html?

Image
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo- ... sndi.html?
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interestedcp
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by interestedcp »

Disregarding errors like wrong angling and similar, I think what the pedestrians are experiencing aren't blinding as such. B&M lights and all similar STZVO approved lights, only emits 4 Lux above the cut off point of the beam. However, the actual lamp is still very bright to look directly at, especially with night accustomed eyes. In other words, the light feels intense, but unless you actually lit up their faces with your beam, it wasn't technically blinding.
You can try the effect by looking at a strong flash light from an angle in a dark room; even though your eyes aren't inside the beam, the LED looks really intense.

So to a certain extent it is hard to avoid that those pedestrians that don't avert their eyes from your LED feels that your light is strong and blinding. Perhaps pointing the light very downwards on unlit shared paths, but then again, you may risk hitting pedestrians.
--
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jois
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by jois »

interestedcp wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 11:56pm Disregarding errors like wrong angling and similar, I think what the pedestrians are experiencing aren't blinding as such. B&M lights and all similar STZVO approved lights, only emits 4 Lux above the cut off point of the beam. However, the actual lamp is still very bright to look directly at, especially with night accustomed eyes. In other words, the light feels intense, but unless you actually lit up their faces with your beam, it wasn't technically blinding.
You can try the effect by looking at a strong flash light from an angle in a dark room; even though your eyes aren't inside the beam, the LED looks really intense.

So to a certain extent it is hard to avoid that those pedestrians that don't avert their eyes from your LED feels that your light is strong and blinding. Perhaps pointing the light very downwards on unlit shared paths, but then again, you may risk hitting pedestrians.
The only way you can see the light is if photons hit your eye. This is only possible if you are in the beam of light. It may not be the brightest part of the beam, but a beam never the less
millimole
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by millimole »


interestedcp wrote:Disregarding errors like wrong angling and similar, I think what the pedestrians are experiencing aren't blinding as such..

So to a certain extent it is hard to avoid that those pedestrians that don't avert their eyes from your LED feels that your light is strong and blinding. .
This perhaps goes a long way to explaining why I seem to be the only person on this forum who isn't troubled by modern car headlights or (non-flashing) bike lights.
I don't look at them!
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
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Mr Tom
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Mr Tom »

slowster wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 10:59pm
Mr Tom wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 8:10pm I normally have the focussed, brightest bit about 10 metres ahead I think, well far enough to light up the road or trail to give me a chance to react if I see something.
I think you might have the beam angled significantly higher than it is *designed* to be. It might be instructive if you compared your beam with the photograph of the beam pattern for your particular model on B&M's website. For example, the beam pattern for an 80 lux light below shows a cut-off that should be well below head hight of anyone in front of the beam.

Are you using a light with a significantly lower output, and compensating for that by angling the beam up? The 30 lux beam pattern in the second photograph has a similar hotspot to the 80 lux, but there is much less light thrown onto the ground further ahead of the hotspot, so angling the light upwards to 'stretch' the hotspot further forward might seem a good idea at first, but is inappropriate because it will dazzle people.

Image
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo- ... sndi.html?

Image
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo- ... sndi.html?
Thanks for those pics. It's possible I did have it too high. I've only just changed my route to include off road and haven't done much cycling at night on the route. I used to adjust the beam by seeing where it was reflecting on car number plates to give me an idea of the height / cut off. I'll do some tests in the next few days and try to get it to a good position. It was definitely shining on the path yesterday though, not angled upwards or something, which is why I was surprised.
tenbikes
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by tenbikes »

I have a Fenex front light that has a wireless thumb remote so I can turn it down ( light setting, not physically) at a moment's notice. Useful, but might not completely solve the issue.
Barrowman
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Barrowman »

Well done for considering others.
Any chance of having a word with some if the other off roaders who mount their lights on their helmets then ride on the road doing a passable impression of a lighthouse. Blindind incoming motorists.
Plus one for current car lights, it's nigh on impossible to avoid being blinded by them when driving . And risky when cycling.
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simonineaston
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by simonineaston »

This subject has been a bugbear of mine for years - at least as long as high brightness front lamps came to market. It's partic. a problem on shared use paths, as remarked by mr tom. It's one of the reasons I've always bit the bullet and bought b&m lamps, with their carefully designed beam pattern. I had thought I was doing the right thing and that by employing b&m's lamps, I was reducing the likelihood of dazzling those travelling (either by foot or on a bike) towards me to a minimum.
So I'm disappointed to learn that mr t's b&m lamps appear to be problematic. When I've set up mine (I have a less poweful model on the Brompton and a brighter one on the Moulton) I've seen that the beam pattern has quite a sharp cut-off at top and have hitherto been confident that the cut-off means I'm not dazzeling others...
I remain furious that the doughnuts who buy super-bright lamps, with no beam control built in, have not the wit to work out the effect their lamps are having on the night vision of oncoming travellers and am super embarassed to find that it turns out I might be one of these knuckle scrapers myself !!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Lights blinding pedestrians

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Mr Tom wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 8:34pm I think the couple were really shocked that I stopped and were really nice to me! I told them I'd do some experiments with it anyway.
I've found this to be the case too. Nothing to do with lights, but back in the summer I was riding on a well used bridleway in West Yorks when a jogger running towards me stopped and jumped off the path. So I stopped (it was slightly downhill for me anyway, so no loss of momentum to worry about) and it turned out she'd previously been knocked over by a cyclist there, as well as several close encounters, so was generally wary – but was really appreciative of me stopping and talking to her.
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