Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Nearholmer
Posts: 3927
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Nearholmer »

expert assessors
I don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 7:00pm
expert assessors
I don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.
Yes, it would be a big change in approach.

What happened to the new "Road Collision Investigation Branch"?... found it:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ranch-rcib

Jonathan
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by jois »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 6:56pm
jois wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 6:52pm
Jdsk wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 6:45pm
It would.

I, and some others, think that many driving offences would be better handled in the domain of "privileges to use the road in this way" rather than criminality. That would have some similarities to "privilege to fly an aircraft in this way". Completely different burden of proof, expert assessors with appeals processes, and sanctions that are predominantly withdrawal of those privileges, supervised and conditional return of them, and appropriate testing. And the main purpose of those sanctions would be avoidance of future harm rather than punishment.
I suspect it's a long debate. But driving as a privilege is what we have now. Your licence can be removed for any criminal offence not just driving, a privilege with criminal sanction
What I describe there would remove the need for a criminal conviction: "Completely different burden of proof".

Jonathan
It was the term privilege I was comparing. Not the burden of proof.
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by jois »

Nearholmer wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 7:00pm
expert assessors
I don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.
Yes they tend to push the boat out with100s of passengers, not sure they are so keen with a jet ski accident
awavey
Posts: 300
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by awavey »

depends, I remember reading a MAIB report covering a yachting collision & sinking where a single member of the crew died, that went into alot of the kind of detail and safety recommendations youd expect from a major rail or air disaster.
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by jois »

awavey wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 9:14pm depends, I remember reading a MAIB report covering a yachting collision & sinking where a single member of the crew died, that went into alot of the kind of detail and safety recommendations youd expect from a major rail or air disaster.
You maybe right, they do seem to put quite a lot of effort in to serious road accidents judging by how long they close the road for
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Dingdong »

+1 I'd like to see a much more forensic and detailed analysis of RTA's involving bicycles and cars. There should be a government led steering group to implement recommendations on a national level, as it seems that at the moment a lot of this stuff just gets swept up into a folder marked 'do not disturb'.
Jdsk
Posts: 24635
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Jdsk »

Dingdong wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 6:12am +1 I'd like to see a much more forensic and detailed analysis of RTA's involving bicycles and cars. There should be a government led steering group to implement recommendations on a national level, as it seems that at the moment a lot of this stuff just gets swept up into a folder marked 'do not disturb'.
What do you think of the proposal for the "Road Safety Investigation Branch"?

"Deepening our understanding of road traffic collisions and how best to address them. Government response"
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... sponse.pdf

Thanks

Jonathan
julianm
Posts: 160
Joined: 6 Jun 2011, 8:13pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by julianm »

Driver given 9 months custody.
`He will serve half before being released`.
2 year ban.
Re-test required.

Update here: https://thestrayferret.co.uk/harrogate- ... f-cyclist/
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 7:06pm
Nearholmer wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 7:00pm
expert assessors
I don’t know where they’ll come from, because the standard of accident investigation on roads is way, way behind the equivalents in air, marine, and rail, where the whole emphasis is on the discovery of facts, and learning lessons to minimise the probability of recurrence, rather than serving up snippets to support defence or prosecution.
Yes, it would be a big change in approach.

What happened to the new "Road Collision Investigation Branch"?... found it:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ranch-rcib

Jonathan
A report on the BBC news website a couple of days ago about an air traffic emergency which began on 19 September 2022 reminded me of this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68436161

In my (layman's) terms, a plane operated by Aer Lingus' domestic service Emerald Airlines had some sort of fault warning during landing at Leeds/Bradford "International" Airport. With none of the company's engineers working there and the intermittant nature of the fault, the aircrew agreed to fly the return flight to Belfast where it could be checked. (Drivers who have had an unexplained dashboard warning light might be familiar with this. approach.)

Anyway, on the return flight multiple warning messages appeared as the plane was landing and the aircrew had serious difficulties making a safe landing not least because there was no accepted way of dealing with what happened. I think the circumlocution in the report of the investigation means that in future, aircrew will not be asked to do something so obviously dangerous
Due to the "sudden magnitude of failure", the flight crew were said to have experienced "a degree of natural startle and surprise, which characteristically affected aspects of their communication and information processing".

"The ambiguous nature, and unclear source, of the technical symptoms caused persisting stress and surprise while the flight crew attempted to re-evaluate the situation," the report continued.

The report said Aer Lingus would adopt a "rule-based structure for situation management" to help crew "manage startle and rebuild situation awareness"
.
User avatar
Pinhead
Posts: 1108
Joined: 11 May 2023, 4:12pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Pinhead »

I report dangerous drivers to

https://gosafesnap.wales/

especially phone users

You would think that now that so many cars have dashcams (I have 2 in front, one angled to oncoming one straight front 1 rear with TWO signs on the car, TAILGATING CAMERA, TAILGATERS ARE REPORTED) idiots would stop driving like they do



I occasionally get tailgated but only until they read the sign and back off LOL
Attachments
gosafe.jpg
AUTISTIC and proud
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by thirdcrank »

This seems as good a place as any for this.

Flight chaos made worse by engineer delay, report finds

... Tim Alderslade, the chief executive of Airlines UK said the interim report "contains damning evidence that NATS' basic resilience planning and procedures were wholly inadequate and fell well below the standard that should be expected for national infrastructure of this importance". ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68563068
Post Reply