Marketing "Science"

[Jdsk]

Various skin and hair care products. I learn of new substances whenever another ad is screened.
I'm sure they think their targeted market takes all this guff as fact.
Even when claiming how a survey has shown a thumbs up the sample size canvased is small and often gets less than 80%.

And uses weasel wording.

That makes it much more difficult to get complaints upheld. What they said looks very different when written down from what you think you (and the intended audience) heard when it was run live.

Hair stuff containing caffeine is an interesting example, and the precise current wording follows an upheld complaint.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

I caught an interesting snippet on the radio yesterday evening, explaining why firms market things as ‘dietary supplements’ (falling under food regulations) rather than drugs/medicines (falling under different laws).

It appears that provided you don’t tell outright lies, or poison people, dietary supplements can be legally be described using all the flowery, hyperbolic, and frankly misleading language you fancy.

[Jdsk]

I caught an interesting snippet on the radio yesterday evening, explaining why firms market things as ‘dietary supplements’ (falling under food regulations) rather than drugs/medicines (falling under different laws).

It appears that provided you don’t tell outright lies, or poison people, dietary supplements can be legally be described using all the flowery, hyperbolic, and frankly misleading language you fancy.

Yes. But there are advertising codes of conduct as well as statutory regulations.

And among the many ethical problems there's whether consumers understand that difference.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

A curious moment after watching a Dyson advert i googled digital motor. It appears to be classic Dyson marketing where they imply novelty whilst using existing technology. That got me thinking of the victorian cyclonic technology that got used n in the m first dyson vacuums under a "patent pending" tag that would never become a full patent.

PS Dyson digital motors use neodymium magnets and pulses of electricity to turn the rotors at high RPMs. These are controlled by electronic circuitry but it's basically brushless motors given a marketing name. I heard they're too be found in every desktop and most laptops and many other uses too. Not novel and nobody but Dyson use the term hence marketing tag.

Transfer of new-ish technologies like Dyson's use of motors based on hard drives (?) is still a great idea when made to work well, we were given an old Dyson handheld in the lockdown which was poorly through long hairs clogging the rotating brush and a tired battery. Cleaned and with a new battery, it's a superb bit of kit, all the more so given the 200w motor.

I tend to ignore all marketing so don't feel the anger others do when they find out it's not completely true. Public perception of the value of a brand or design can be just as misleading.

A doctor friend tells me the pharma industry makes good use of the confusion of relative and absolute effectivities, using the former to descrtibe how good their product is and the latter to describe how 'effective' the disease is for which the product is intended.

[Jdsk]

A doctor friend tells me the pharma industry makes good use of the confusion of relative and absolute effectivities, using the former to descrtibe how good their product is and the latter to describe how 'effective' the disease is for which the product is intended.

This is a genuine problem in how best to present data as well as a marketing technique. It's very hard to overcome without a reasonably well-informed audience.

Good infographics and expert communicators help: More or Less, Ben Goldacre etc.

And here are some recent complaints on that precise subject to the industry's Code of Practice Authority:
https://www.pmcpa.org.uk/search/#?cludo ... e=standard
The adjudications are worth reading.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

And here are some recent complaints on that precise subject to the industry's Code of Practice Authority:
https://www.pmcpa.org.uk/search/#?cludo ... e=standard
The adjudications are worth reading.

Jonathan

Thanks, plenty there to be going on with!

[Tangled Metal]

I think there's so many uses for brushless motors as Dyson use and call digital motors. I'm sure of you've bought any cordless power tools over the last decade you've got one.

The phrase digital motor is a made up term, made up, by Dyson to separate their brushless motors from those of power tools, hard drives, etc. A new, special and worth the Dyson premium kind of difference!

Good luck with your new battery. IME Dyson replacement batteries last not very long. Ours less than a year before the battery list charge to at most 10 minutes use not 20 or 30 minutes.

[Biospace]

...we were given an old Dyson handheld in the lockdown which was poorly through long hairs clogging the rotating brush and a tired battery. Cleaned and with a new battery, it's a superb bit of kit, all the more so given the 200w motor.

Good luck with your new battery. IME Dyson replacement batteries last not very long. Ours less than a year before the battery list charge to at most 10 minutes use not 20 or 30 minutes.

The little thing continues to work as well as when I reassembled it and replaced the battery, early in 2020. It's in use most days and is about 13 years old now. The replacement battery was a generic one, albeit advertised as fitted with Sony 18650s and lasts up to half an hour when needed.

One of its 'failings' is the high energy efficiency which people are not used to. To prevent sluggish use and power drain when the motorised brush attachment is on, this needs cleaning of longer threads and hairs. It takes less than a couple of minutes once a month or so, but the average modern consumer doesn't expect to have any maintenance. The current models may well have this addressed.

[mattheus]

It's rather pleasing that we have a user called "Bio(s)pace" contributing to this thread!

[Stevek76]

Plenty in the bike industry often obediently parroted by low effort semi sponsored reviews.

Mtb suspension is always simultaneously more small bump compliant, supportive midstroke which rides higher and with progressive bottom out resistance.

The latest groupset always produces sharper and crisper shifts

The phrase digital motor is a made up term, made up, by Dyson to separate their brushless motors from those of power tools, hard drives, etc. A new, special and worth the Dyson premium kind of difference!

Edited: misunderstood this due to the reference to power tools. Brushed motors are only really starting to become less common in those now, though they still dominate the budget section of the market.

The digital is indeed a reference to the speed control i think but it's not new to use since form of pulse width adjustment rather than changing the voltage to adjust speed. Been a thing at the posher end of power tools for a while where it helps with 'soft' starts etc

[Biospace]

It's rather pleasing that we have a user called "Bio(s)pace" contributing to this thread!

- - - -

[jois]

Plenty in the bike industry often obediently parroted by low effort semi sponsored reviews.

Mtb suspension is always simultaneously more small bump compliant, supportive midstroke which rides higher and with progressive bottom out resistance.

The latest groupset always produces sharper and crisper shifts

The phrase digital motor is a made up term, made up, by Dyson to separate their brushless motors from those of power tools, hard drives, etc. A new, special and worth the Dyson premium kind of difference!

The digital is more a reference to the way the speed is controlled rather than brush/brushless (hard drives have always been brushless btw, dust from brushes is not good to have inside them!) but it certainly isn't anything new other than the term. A 'digital' motor is controlled via a constant voltage but rapidly pulsed with the width of the pulses varied.

The bike industry like a lot of others sells products that with a bit of care will last decades and so is to a large extent dependent on convincing you that the product they sold you as " superb " is now obsolete because it doesn't have XY&Z

And to be fair to them something's they have developed are better than what went before that's if you truly have a tangible use for what ever small improvements they offer at usuall y considerable price premium .

There are a long list of technology that I can see no conviable use for, for me, I don't tell others how to spend their money other than laughing behind their back. and it's much to exspensive to fall into " nice to have" or just for ornamental purposes

. If I want an ornament IL buy a vase not a 4 grand gravel racer that I won't ever race on gravel or even take on gravel at 4grand.

I'm not as old school as some on here, I'm rather stuck at about 2010, I have a 2005 mountain bike that's as heavy as a gas cooker, they improved after that

[Biospace]

I'm not as old school as some on here, I'm rather stuck at about 2010, I have a 2005 mountain bike that's as heavy as a gas cooker, they improved after that

The steel framed one I use (1994) is a tad under 11kg, to me it's light for its abilities but not sure if 11kg is regarded as overweight today?

[jois]

I'm not as old school as some on here, I'm rather stuck at about 2010, I have a 2005 mountain bike that's as heavy as a gas cooker, they improved after that

The steel framed one I use (1994) is a tad under 11kg, to me it's light for its abilities but not sure if 11kg is regarded as overweight today?

It depends on what it is or what it has, I have a mid 90s canadale MB which is my so cheap and unattractive IL leave it anywhere bike, that weights 25lbs ish

A 2010 trek with all the forks discs etal that weighs much the same. So I get a lot more for the same weight, and this trek with forks and discs which weighs most of 40lbs , I haven't actually weigh it, just every time I pick it up I think jeez that's heavy

[Biospace]

I'm not as old school as some on here, I'm rather stuck at about 2010, I have a 2005 mountain bike that's as heavy as a gas cooker, they improved after that

The steel framed one I use (1994) is a tad under 11kg, to me it's light for its abilities but not sure if 11kg is regarded as overweight today?

It depends on what it is or what it has, I have a mid 90s canadale MB which is my so cheap and unattractive IL leave it anywhere bike, that weights 25lbs ish

A 2010 trek with all the forks discs etal that weighs much the same. So I get a lot more for the same weight, and this trek with forks and discs which weighs most of 40lbs , I haven't actually weigh it, just every time I pick it up I think jeez that's heavy

They forks have sprung and damped movement, the brakes will lock up either wheel, wet or dry. Does that help?

Here it is, viewtopic.php?p=1702040#p1702040