Advice on gearing

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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Tigerbiten
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Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Tigerbiten »

PeterJ wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 2:40pm My largest rear cog has 32 teeth. My smallest chain ring has 28 teeth. The rear set-up is Shimano Deore.

Is it just a matter of replacing the largest rear cog? How many teeth should I go for if I want to twirl my way up hills?

Thank you.
Don't just focus on your lowest gear, I'd look at your overall gears and how you use them.
I assume you have a 28/38/48 triple in front and an 11-32 cassette with ? sprockets on the back.

How often do you use your top gear, do you like to pedal downhill at +30 mph or start to freewheel at ~25 mph.
If you don't use it that often then starting the cassette at a 12t sprocket may give you a better/more even range of gears.
eg:- going from a 11-32 to a 12-36 with a 9 speed cassette.
But you may need a mech extender to use a 36t big sprocket which may make your overall gear shifts less crisp.
But that depends on the number of sprockets you have.

Shimano is always conservative on derailleur capacities.
So it's normally ok to exceed them by a couple of teeth.

So another option is to put your bike in small/small and measure the gap between the chain and the bottom of the front derailleur cage.
The chain moves down by 2mm per chainring tooth reduction.
With 5mm or so you can reduce the inner ring by 2 teeth for something a 26/38/48 triple.
Plus 10mm then middle by 2 and inner by 4 for a 24/36/48 triple, that will give you another gear down without altering your back cassette.
And I've run a 22/36/48 front triple but than was right at the limit of what the derailleur could cope with so not really recommended.
But as you open up the difference between ring the shift may well be less crisp, especially under load.

Luck ........... :D
aflook
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Location: Sheffield

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by aflook »

A lot of this is down to personal preference. I changed to a 24t ring when I started using bigger tyres. Now I run 24-36-48 with an 11-34 9sp cassette. This with an Xt rear mech and chain set. I think this is a 2 teeth bigger range than is supposed to work. I try to start longer tours with easier terrain, but after 2 or 3 weeks I can get over a Pyrenee or a Pico de Europa taking enough time. Come the next tour the hills are tougher than I remembered from last time…. I tend to keep pedalling with lots of breaks rather than push, but again that’s all personal preference. It’s all worth it for the views and descents! I’m sure you’ll enjoy whatever you do, flat or hilly, so Bonne route.
Grldtnr
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Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 7:04pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Grldtnr »

I would consider how you use the gearing you have,by that I mean is it too low, to irregular in spacings,
We used to be able to easily build 'custom' gear clusters, i.e. buy a freewheel body then build up the ratios we wanted, quite cheaply as d -i-y at home ,things have changed.
Also,perhaps it's your body/ muscle type, whilst I was quite happy to churn along in a high inch gear, I invariably struggled with low gears, I changed up as soon as I could if climbing, in fact hardly ever used the biggest cogs on my block.
Once you have figured out what type of cyclist you are, i.e. a Cadence spinner ,or a big gear pusher, I'd say just rack them miles up, carrying luggage like a couple of bricks or just a load , in effect resistance training, then do it regular
A laid back, low down, layabout recumbent triker!
rareposter
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Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by rareposter »

PeterJ wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 2:40pm My largest rear cog has 32 teeth. My smallest chain ring has 28 teeth. The rear set-up is Shimano Deore.

Is it just a matter of replacing the largest rear cog? How many teeth should I go for if I want to twirl my way up hills?

Thank you.
Need a bit more detail than just the lowest gear...
What bike is it (I'm assuming some sort of touring bike from your comment about camping?). What is the full gearing set - number and combination of chainrings, number of rear gears (7/8/9/10...)? and what sort of load you'll be carrying?
A bit of info about you - age, weight, fitness, experience - is also handy.

A young fit person on a road bike will be able to use far higher gears than an older or less fit person on a touring bike with a heavy load so some sort of indication of the variables would help in identifying the easiest / cheapest fixes for your gearing.
PeterJ
Posts: 111
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:59pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by PeterJ »

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. In response to the various points:

1. I have a cranky knee at the moment, so although I intend to strengthen my legs, I want a gear I that doesn't involve me grinding my way up hills. I have relatively weak legs but excellent cardiovascular fitness, so spinning suits me.

2. Bike is a Ridgeback Voyage. The setup is:
Front: Alivio Chainset, 48, 38, 28 with a Sora mechanism.
Rear: Deore mechanism with an 11-32 eight speed cassette.

3. I do use top gear when I'm caning it along a downhill incline.

4. I want to be able to get up hills with a fully loaded bike. By 'hills' I mean anything you might find in the Peak District with the exception of Winatts. By 'fully loaded' I mean two rear panniers and a sleeping & thermarest on the rear rack.

4. I'll be getting the work done by a very competent local bike shop. Budget is an issue and I'm very happy with the performance of the current setup other than the lack of a very low gear so I'm hoping for a low cost solution if possible.

Thanks again. The depth of knowledge on this forum is really valuable.
Last edited by PeterJ on 29 Sep 2022, 8:27am, edited 1 time in total.
Zanda
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 1:07pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Zanda »

Chainsets with 48-36-24 are available. That would give you 14 per cent easier gear.
Jdsk
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Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Jdsk »

And thanks for that detailed and exemplary response to the questions and advice. I'm always amazed by how many OPs don't do that.
PeterJ wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 7:56am 4. I'll be getting the work done by a very competent local bike shop. Budget is an issue and I'm very happy with the performance of the current setup other than the lack of a very low gear so I'm hoping for a low cost solution if possible.
I'm pretty sure that the experts here will come up with components that fit your needs and drivetrain and budget.

You need to decide who is going to buy the bits. It's usually cheaper for you to do that online and only pay the bike shop for labour. But it reduces risk if the bike shop supplies everything: if any of it doesn't work together then it's their problem.

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Carlton green »

The gears as fitted (detailed a couple of posts above) are pretty low, of course lower gearing might be possible but in the past - and now too I suspect - cyclists have successfully toured all over the place with higher (than those) gears.

In recent years I’ve noticed a very common, near universal even, fixation with riding up all hills. Getting off and walking is allowed and your muscles will thank you for both the change and for not flogging them up a hill. Ride as much as you comfortably can and then be happy to dismount and walk the rest.

Resistance training is your friend. Complete some of your pre-tour rides with ballast loaded onto your bike; without being excessive build a fraction more muscle strength and, in particular, more fatigue resistance - when load moving every little increase in fitness does help.

Hill climbing has lots of factors involved; I claim no expertise but technique and mental attitudes can be improved without cost and make better use of what we already have.

Good luck.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
PeterJ
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Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:59pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by PeterJ »

Jdsk wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 8:56am And thanks for that detailed and exemplary response to the questions and advice. I'm always amazed by how many OPs don't do that.
PeterJ wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 7:56am 4. I'll be getting the work done by a very competent local bike shop. Budget is an issue and I'm very happy with the performance of the current setup other than the lack of a very low gear so I'm hoping for a low cost solution if possible.
I'm pretty sure that the experts here will come up with components that fit your needs and drivetrain and budget.

You need to decide who is going to buy the bits. It's usually cheaper for you to do that online and only pay the bike shop for labour. But it reduces risk if the bike shop supplies everything: if any of it doesn't work together then it's their problem.

Jonathan
Thank you.

I'm inclined to let the shop purchase the bits. He's always been very good value, and occasionally will give me a small part for free. And as you say, I'd prefer him to have full responsibility for making sure it all works - I'd imagine he'd be happier with this arrangement too.

It would be great if the forum experts could come up with a list of requirements I can hand to the shop.

Thanks again.
simonhill
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Location: Essex

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by simonhill »

Edit Cross posted with last post, but generally in agreement.

You say a good local bikeshop. They presumably can advise on lower gearing, after all it's only smaller at the front and/or bigger at the back. You will now have a bit more understanding of what might be good when chatting to them.

They should know what will work with what and as previously said it's their problem if it doesn't work. If be tempted to let them get on with it rather than supplying a few odd bits and pieces.

Is there any chance of you getting hold of a bike with much lower gears to give it a try.
rareposter
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Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by rareposter »

Zanda wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 8:24am Chainsets with 48-36-24 are available. That would give you 14 per cent easier gear.
Yep, Shimano do a Deore level one with 26-36-48, the Trekking FC-T6010 Crankset.
Sugino do a 24-36-48 but that is really stretching the limits of the Sora front mech and you may end up needing a new front mech.

For this reason, you'd be best off giving the bike to the shop with clear instructions and letting them sort it otherwise you run the significant risk that you'll buy a whole load of parts that aren't actually compatible.

There's an extremely limited set of options in 8-speed cassettes now; you're unlikely to get anything more than a 12-32, it'll be a push to find a 12-34.

At that point, you need to work out if it'll be cheaper / more efficient to get a complete new groupset or even a whole new bike given the fairly limited reduction in gearing size you'll get from a new chainset.
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Vantage
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Re: Advice on gearing

Post by Vantage »

The low budget statement hasn't been lost on me as I've been doing that for years.
What I have found should be within reach for your bike shop as they are Shimano parts.
A 42-32-22t square taper chainset. Your front mech will cope with this easily. SHIMANO Crankset 8-speed Black FC-M311 42/32/22T 170mm https://amzn.eu/d/fgIfgDW
I run a 40t single chainset and with severe spinning have done 30mph. 20mph is comfortable.
The biggest 8 speed cassette I can find without delving deep into the interweb is a shimano 11-34t. Anywhere between £16 and £20. There's plenty still out there. Your mech will cope with that easily too.
You're looking at around £50 parts and whatever labour the shop charges. You might need a new chain if the current one is worn.
With those gears, you should be able to climb Everest.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
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531colin
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Re: Advice on gearing

Post by 531colin »

PeterJ wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 7:56am Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. In response to the various points:

1. I have a cranky knee at the moment, so although I intend to strengthen my legs, I want a gear I that doesn't involve me grinding my way up hills. I have relatively weak legs but excellent cardiovascular fitness, so spinning suits me.

2. Bike is a Ridgeback Voyage. The setup is:
Front: Alivio Chainset, 48, 38, 28 with a Sora mechanism.
Rear: Deore mechanism with an 11-32 eight speed cassette.

3. I do use top gear when I'm caning it along a downhill incline.

4. I want to be able to get up hills with a fully loaded bike. By 'hills' I mean anything you might find in the Peak District with the exception of Winatts. By 'fully loaded' I mean two rear panniers and a sleeping & thermarest on the rear rack.

4. I'll be getting the work done by a very competent local bike shop. Budget is an issue and I'm very happy with the performance of the current setup other than the lack of a very low gear so I'm hoping for a low cost solution if possible.

Thanks again. The depth of knowledge on this forum is really valuable.
This is already an odd set-up.
You have an MTB chainset and a road F. mech. Normally these would be incompatible, because the chainline is different between Shimano MTB and road stuff. Either Ridgeback have specified a non-standard length BB unit, or they have been very lucky.
I'm assuming you have drop bar STI levers (combined gear and brake levers) because these work with road f. mechs. The cable pull is different for MTB front mechs.

So, people are recommending other MTB chainsets.....you may get away with the standard length BB unit for whichever chainset you choose, you may not. ....note that its the chainset which specifies what BB unit you need, you must expect to change the BB unit when you change the chainset, even if you wanted an MTB chainline.
PeterJ
Posts: 111
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:59pm

Re: Advice on gearing

Post by PeterJ »

531colin wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 1:13pm [quote=PeterJ post_id=1726580 time=1664434565 u

This is already an odd set-up.
You have an MTB chainset and a road F. mech. Normally these would be incompatible, because the chainline is different between Shimano MTB and road stuff. Either Ridgeback have specified a non-standard length BB unit, or they have been very lucky.
I'm assuming you have drop bar STI levers (combined gear and brake levers) because these work with road f. mechs. The cable pull is different for MTB front mechs.
The bottom bracket is a Shimano BB-UN55 according to the online spec.

Yes, the bike has drop bar STI levers.
simonhill
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Re: Advice on gearing

Post by simonhill »

I don't think you can (necessarily) use Amazon or eBay prices as a guide to what a shop will charge. They are often tied to a supplier and charge RRP, which gives them a hefty mark up.

My LBS doesn't charge for a wheel build if you buy all the parts from them.
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