Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

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rmurphy195
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Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by rmurphy195 »

Over the last few days I've received my estimated bills for next year based on prices from the 1st October. I have different suppliers for gas and electricity and, clearly, they talk to each other.

The interesting one is Gas - its calculated based on consumption of 13,685 kwh, which is suspicioulsy close to my consumption for the past 12 months (Yup, I did get my bills out and add them all up to see!). The resulting figure is based on "The Government’s Energy Price Guarantee discount of 4.217 pence per kWh (excl VAT) for gas"

Now, either I am close to being an average household (*Which I doubt, reasons below if you want to read that far), or my conscious efforts at frugality last year - coupled with a very mild Winter - are going to land me in trouble if we have a bad Winter.

So, my question to you all is this - is your charge also based on your consumption for last year? And are we all getting exactly the same discount of 4.217p/KWh?

I suspect that how it works is this - take total consumption of gas + electric for the household over the past year, work out the proportion of gas to electric, apportion the £2500 between the two, and voila you have the charge. If this is the case then, to my mind, the frugal among us will have less government discount than those who have been a little more wasteful!

* Doubted because we are just the two of us, in a 2 bed bungalow, with the heating off in all the unused rooms and normally only on during the early morning and evening. An indicator is that since moving from a 3-bed semi a couple of years ago our energy consumption has nosedived.
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PH
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by PH »

The £2,500 figure is for some mythical average household with a split usage gas/electric of 80/20. I doubt many are paying it, for a start around 20% of homes don't have gas!
What has actually been capped are the standing charges and unit rates, for some reason there's a regional variation, the full capped rates can be seen here, along with a handy calculator if you know previous usage:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utili ... it-rates-/

I'm a low user, with the £400 discount and the £150 council tax rebate I'll be paying less next year than this, if my usage remains the same. If only everything else wasn't going up...
rjb
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by rjb »

The government £400 grant is paid direct to my energy account in 6 tranches of approx £66 . British gas my supplier is paid this and credits it to my account. This is irrespective of how much energy I use so it may increase my credit if I haven't used it all. I suspect some suppliers are using the energy cap to calculate what the discount is per unit for using that amount of energy and informing their customers. This confuses everyone as I think you noticed. :shock:
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by PH »

rjb wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 9:58pm I suspect some suppliers are using the energy cap to calculate what the discount is per unit for using that amount of energy and informing their customers.
I don't think that is the case, the "Energy Price Guarantee discount" is the unit price the Government is paying the suppliers to facilitate them supplying at the capped rate. Not to be confused with the "Energy Bills Support Scheme" which is the flat rate paid to customers.
Nearholmer
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Nearholmer »

Seems like a case of the supplier providing too much, confusing information!

The capped and government discounted price for gas is now 10.3p/kWh*, and for electricity 35p/kWh*, but if you are on an old tariff that still has time to run at a fixed rate below those figures, you pay the old rate until the fix expires. [Figures corrected after initially being misled by Ofgem website].

The £400 "grant" is a separate thing, and how you get it depends on how you pay your bills. If you have an account and pay by direct debit, you get £66/67 credited to that each month October 2022 to March 2023.

As a BTW, a pal of mine lives in an "all electric" retirement flat with storage heaters, is an absolute miser with electricity, and is on a very good "fix" that lasts until 2024. His entire electricity bill for the year was £387, so he was paying £35/month direct debit. To make he rebate work, his supplier has increased his direct debit to £68/month, which with rebate will give a net £2/month bill, and build up a bit of credit, if the weather is no worse than last year.

*With strange regional and other variations.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 29 Sep 2022, 7:23am, edited 2 times in total.
Pebble
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Pebble »

Interesting how we have different takes on this.

My understanding is (inc vat) electric capped at about 35p per kwh and gas capped at about 10p per kwh.
this is based on the mythical average user using
2,900 kwh of electric &
12,000 kwh of gas.

this plus standing charges will add up to £2,500 per year

My understanding is that the £400 grant is taken away from this meaning the average customer will be paying £2,100.


I'm sure the 15p & 52p rates is what the charges would have been going up to in october when the cap was to be set at £3,578

it is all a bit confusing (i'm only 90% certain of the above) with different caps for different areas and different standing charges being made by different suppliers, its all a mess, as usual.

I'm expecting mine to be
4160 x 35p = £1456
365 x 50p = £182.50
19400 x 10p = £1940
365 x 0.27 = £98.60

total = £ 3,677
Grant = £ 400
Giving £3,267 or £63 per week


I could be wrong!
Nearholmer
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Nearholmer »

I got the 15p and 52p figures from the Ofgem website, so if I’m wrong, I’m wrong on the very highest authority.

I know that NI is one of the places with different figures; do you live there?

PS: I think maybe I have been misled by the highest authority, because I too find the 10p and 35p figures quoted elsewhere, citing Ofgem, yet Ofgem’s website, right now, this minute, says 15p and 52p!

Mess confirmed!

Is this where the mysterious 4.217p comes into things? I think so.
axel_knutt
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by axel_knutt »

rmurphy195 wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 9:27pmconsumption of 13,685 kwh, which is suspicioulsy close to my consumption for the past 12 months
Now, either I am close to being an average household (*Which I doubt
Average gas consumption for the Midlands is 12,871kWh, so you're 6% above average.
TDCV 2.png
The national average is 12,000kWh
TDCV 1.png
(Latest Typical Domestic Consumption Values from Ofgem)
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PH
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by PH »

Nearholmer wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 12:14am I got the 15p and 52p figures from the Ofgem website, so if I’m wrong, I’m wrong on the very highest authority.

I know that NI is one of the places with different figures; do you live there?

PS: I think maybe I have been misled by the highest authority, because I too find the 10p and 35p figures quoted elsewhere, citing Ofgem, yet Ofgem’s website, right now, this minute, says 15p and 52p!

Mess confirmed!

Is this where the mysterious 4.217p comes into things? I think so.
Yes, what i said in an earlier post. it's the "Energy Price Guarantee discount"
Ofgem had already set the cap, the Government is paying suppliers so it can be reduced.
Jdsk
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 12:14am I got the 15p and 52p figures from the Ofgem website, so if I’m wrong, I’m wrong on the very highest authority.

I know that NI is one of the places with different figures; do you live there?

PS: I think maybe I have been misled by the highest authority, because I too find the 10p and 35p figures quoted elsewhere, citing Ofgem, yet Ofgem’s website, right now, this minute, says 15p and 52p!

Mess confirmed!

Is this where the mysterious 4.217p comes into things? I think so.
Sounds like the same problem with Ofgem's website as here:
viewtopic.php?p=1725372#p1725372

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rmurphy195
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by rmurphy195 »

Thanks all.

OVOEnergy has an interesting breakdown for Electricity (Excluding heating, as they all are) https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy ... a-home-use - but my EON email doesn't seem to give me this. The OFGem figures normally quoted correspond with OVOEnergy's flats and mid-terrace.

My gas is, indeed, slightly above the only National Average that I can find - the 12k OFGem one - which makes me wonder if the OFGem figure for gas is also based on flats and mid terrace. Having lived in both, I can testify to the difference it makes "sharing" the heating with your neighbours - particularly good for flats from the 2nd floor upwards!
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

particularly good for flats from the 2nd floor upwards!
One of the reasons I chose my 3rd floor apartment was that I'd be in the middle of a 5 floor development. I had to weigh that against the possibility of sharing their noise too! I've been comfy enough these past few winters, but of course I'm now worried that my neighbours may turn their heating down... :wink:
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

ps I really meant to say, "Don't forget to upload meter readings today or tomorrow, so your provider doesn't bill you, based on possibly inaccurate estimates. Of course, expect the usual website crashes as all other sensible folk do likewise... "
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Psamathe »

Pebble wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 12:09am Interesting how we have different takes on this.

My understanding is (inc vat) electric capped at about 35p per kwh and gas capped at about 10p per kwh.
this is based on the mythical average user using
2,900 kwh of electric &
12,000 kwh of gas.

this plus standing charges will add up to £2,500 per year
...
For ages I didn't really understand the energy cap (the OFGEM one) as it was always reported as a maximum yearly cost per household. I could never appreciate why somebody in a small terrace should be paying the same cap as somebody in a 10 bedroom mansion. All the reports were for a ma xyearly houshold bill.

It's only recently that some (e.g. the how to save money sites/commentators) have been pointing out that the cap is a cap per kW/h so use less and you pay less, use loads and you could pay more than the capped yearly bill per household.

I think the capped yearly bill per household is a very bad over-simplification that would confuse some. Why not leave the heating on 24/7 at 25℃ because your bill is capped at £2500 per year. Including words like "typical" is not noticable next to a frightening yearly bill amount and is also ambiguous. I can be typical and still get a higher bill.

(My not fully understanding was in part because I already use minimum so not a lot I can do to reduce so "it is what it is" but I did some Googling several months ago and nowwhere then could find the capped /kWh price. Things have improved recently).

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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by PH »

simonineaston wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 10:22am ps I really meant to say, "Don't forget to upload meter readings today or tomorrow, so your provider doesn't bill you, based on possibly inaccurate estimates. Of course, expect the usual website crashes as all other sensible folk do likewise... "
Your supplier may vary, but mine (British Gas) sent an email reminder to take the reading tomorrow, but I have 14 days to upload it - maybe they learnt from the last time!
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