Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

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Jdsk
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 10:03am Sorry for my typo, I meant 2023/2024 ie next winter. Will the same subsidies apply? I guess its a wait a see on the Govts part?
As above. We don't know. And politicians will make that decision.

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by al_yrpal »

simonineaston wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 9:59am I'm thinking there may not be a next winter - well, not for us humans anyway... Putin's about to annexe 4 districts from Ukraine, which as I understand it, is a so-called red line for Nato. Oh Dear. The End is Nigh !!
Anyway, meanwhile if you're stuck for light entertainment, read up about former Soviet army lieutenant colonel, Stanislav Petrov, who having used his experience & judgement to save the world from nuclear armagedon, was scorned and spurned by the authorities... some people just don't appreciate the resources they've got, do they ?!
Perhaps you ought to change your user name to simon prophet of doom? :lol:

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

Signature duly ammended...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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al_yrpal
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by al_yrpal »

simonineaston wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 12:42pm Signature duly ammended...
Dont forget the icon!

Heres a suggestion...
Simon?
Simon?
Al :wink:
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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mjr
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by mjr »

simonineaston wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 12:35pm
but mine (British Gas) sent an email reminder to take the reading tomorrow, but I have 14 days to upload it
That's good - British Gas, owned by UK company Centrica, is coming out of this whole debacle with some modest grace. They are the only energy supplier, at least in the so-called Big Six, that have not been criticised for dealing harshly with customers in financial difficulties.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/m ... ling-bills
It'll be rather surprising if they're not criticised soon. I've read posts on other forums from people transferred to BG after supplier collapse where BG won't bill them more often than quarterly (already a challenge for budgeting) and has then messed up several bills in a row, resulting in a huge next bill.

To be fair, I don't remember anyone complaining about BG getting heavy handed, but that may just mean they know their billing is in shambles. It still worries people to owe thousands and not know exactly how much.
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

I have just one tiny wafer-thin anecdote re British Gas, ie their engineer turned up at a friend's gaff the other day, to fix his broken boiler and surprised everybody by insisting that he knew what the problem was and that he could get hold of the part and that he would need an extra 24 hours to source it and that he would come back the next day, at a time that would suit my friend... "A likely story!" my friend thought, but apparently, said engineer was as good as his word and the boiler is now fixed and once more doing sterling work. So there.
S
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PH
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by PH »

mjr wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 4:48pm To be fair, I don't remember anyone complaining about BG getting heavy handed, but that may just mean they know their billing is in shambles. It still worries people to owe thousands and not know exactly how much.
I got shunted to BG when my supplier of choice went bust last year. I didn't have any say in it and I don't think BG did either.
It hasn't been faultless, the information needed, like unit price, was hard to find, the billing was wrong twice, there was also some dispute about how much I was in credit and as others report I didn't get any bill for the first four months. It was an inconvenience rather than an issue, I take monthly reading of my usage, so once I'd established the unit and standing charge costs I just put enough away to cover it.
On the plus side, I wasn't pressured into paying the incorrect bill and their online support were reasonably easy to contact and dealt with the errors in an acceptable way. Communication about the new cap, tariff and discount has been clear and I'm now on a monthly DD which they allowed me to set.
I'd say I'm pretty satisfied, it's not a good situation, but it isn't of their making and I don't think they've made it any worse for me.
axel_knutt
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by axel_knutt »

simonineaston wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 10:53am I have just one tiny wafer-thin anecdote re British Gas, ie their engineer turned up at a friend's gaff the other day, to fix his broken boiler and surprised everybody by insisting that he knew what the problem was and that he could get hold of the part and that he would need an extra 24 hours to source it and that he would come back the next day, at a time that would suit my friend... "A likely story!" my friend thought, but apparently, said engineer was as good as his word and the boiler is now fixed and once more doing sterling work. So there.
A British Gas anecdote.

When we converted to natural gas in the 1970s, we had our old Ascot "geyser" replaced with a new multipoint water heater. For the uninitiated, they heat water on demand when you run the tap, a bit like today's combi boilers, but without the heating. The water passes through a venturi that creates a pressure drop when you turn the tap on, then the pressure difference is sensed by a diaphragm, and the displacement moves a pushrod which opens the gas valve.

Why am I rambling on about all this? Well, the pushrod accumulates limescale so that it jams in the gland where it passes through the diaphragm housing. This means that when you turn the tap off, the return spring isn't strong enough to return it, and the gas keeps burning, so you now have a sealed vessel full of water being heated by a 22kW burner.

Now one of two things happens: either you notice that the burner hasn't stopped, and recognise the knocking in the pipes that signals the water's boiling and the heat exchanger's about to blow, or else it will explode. Fortunately we were able to do the former, so that was the cue to quickly turn the tap back on, and relieve the pressure (then stand well back as a blast of steam and solder pellets erupt from the tap). Then you can turn off the gas at the stopcock, followed by the water tap.

Why am I still rambling on about this? Well, when British Gas came out, they behaved as if they'd never seen anything like it before, scraped the limescale off the pushrod, put it all back together, and went away. In due course the limescale accumulated again, and there was another hasty scramble to stop the heater exploding, and again BG cleaned the pushrod and went away. This happened again and again and again over the years, but each time BG behaved as if they'd never seen it before, so my father wrote them a long letter, and their solution was to fit another more modern water heater (at our expense).

That one seemed OK for a while, but then the same thing started happening again, and this time the stakes were higher for two reasons. Firstly, my father had died in the meantime, which meant that if I turned the water tap off upstairs in the bathroom, there was nobody downstairs in the kitchen to spot that the gas burner was still running, so now the only warning was the knocking noise from the pipes. Secondly, the water main had been replaced, and in keeping with current regulations, a non-return valve had been fitted to the rising main. Previously, the heat exchanger could overheat, but the pressure would never exceed mains pressure because the water was able to expand back into the main. This was critical, because now the NR valve prevented any expansion, so that when the burner kept running there was nothing to limit the pressure. This all meant that I had less than a second to recognise the knocking in the pipes, and turn the tap back on to relieve the pressure (not forgetting to stand clear of the steam blast of course).

Sure enough, one day my luck ran out and the heater exploded, but fortunately, being in the bathroom at the time meant I didn't get scalded to death in the kitchen. BG were round quite quickly when I told them it had exploded, but they just talked to me like a naughty 5 year old because I didn't have one of their service contracts, then put it all back together and went away until the next time.

And there were quite a few next times, so I made sure I had a service contract, then at least the heat exchangers got replaced at their expense. I really don't remember how many, but eventually they got fed up of paying for new heat exchangers at £200-300 apiece, and cancelled my service contract. This was about the time I decided I'd had enough and wrote to them threatening legal action, and just for good measure I included a copy of the letter my father had sent them on the same subject 16 years earlier. Within 24 hours they came round to fit a modification that had been developed donkey's years previously to fix the problem. I think the fix was a Teflon-coated pushrod that stopped the limescale sticking to it, but I had another 25 years trouble-free service out of it after that was done.

(BTW, independent plumbers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.)
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
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Jdsk
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 9:41am
al_yrpal wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 9:36am ...
My one remaining question is "what happens 2022/2023?
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 5:52pm
al_yrpal wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 5:46pm One thing hasnt been made clear - this winter we are getting £400 off our bills.....what about next winter, will we still get that, or, are they waiting to see if gas prices come down?
The official statement is now:

GOV.UK: "Energy bills support factsheet":
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ember-2022
Updated 21 September 2022

To the best of my knowledge beyond that it's politics. And not necessarily the same across the UK.
The Chancellor today:
"The biggest single expense in the growth plan was the energy price guarantee.
"This is a landmark policy supporting millions of people through a difficult winter ad today I want to confirm that the support we are providing between now and April next year will not change.
"But beyond that, the prime minister and I have agreed it would not be responsible to continue exposing public finances to unlimited volatility in international gas prices.
"So I’m announcing today a Treasury-led review into how we support energy bills beyond April next year. The objective is to design a new approach that will cost the taxpayer significantly less than planned whilst ensuring enough support for those in need.
"Any support for businesses will be targeted to those most affected and the new approach will better incentivise energy efficiency."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

Hunt's statement is effectively saying three words, Truss Talks Rubbish.
S
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Nearholmer
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Nearholmer »

No new news, as they say in the USA.
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by mjr »

simonineaston wrote: 17 Oct 2022, 12:42pm Hunt's statement is effectively saying three words, Truss Talks Rubbish.
Plus the words "Treasury-led" to say "I'm in charge of the most vital policy now".

Truss could easily sink herself at PMQs or, more likely, her next press conference, if it's as bad as the last one and incurs further extra costs (for government and all UK borrowers) due to adverse market reaction.
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simonineaston
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by simonineaston »

Just seen this - blimey!!
Energy companies attempting to tap a £40bn government scheme to protect them from volatile prices will be blocked from paying bonuses to executives and dividends to shareholders.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Psamathe
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Oct 2022, 11:35am
Jdsk wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 9:41am
al_yrpal wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 9:36am ...
My one remaining question is "what happens 2022/2023?
Jdsk wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 5:52pm
The official statement is now:

GOV.UK: "Energy bills support factsheet":
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ember-2022
Updated 21 September 2022

To the best of my knowledge beyond that it's politics. And not necessarily the same across the UK.
The Chancellor today:
"The biggest single expense in the growth plan was the energy price guarantee.
"This is a landmark policy supporting millions of people through a difficult winter ad today I want to confirm that the support we are providing between now and April next year will not change.
"But beyond that, the prime minister and I have agreed it would not be responsible to continue exposing public finances to unlimited volatility in international gas prices.
"So I’m announcing today a Treasury-led review into how we support energy bills beyond April next year. The objective is to design a new approach that will cost the taxpayer significantly less than planned whilst ensuring enough support for those in need.
"Any support for businesses will be targeted to those most affected and the new approach will better incentivise energy efficiency."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live

Jonathan
So previously/recently consumers had been promised 2 years under the scheme and now suddenly it's cut to 6 months! I don't see how Truss can stay.

Interesting to see if she keeps her promise about the pensions triple lock. Older generation tends to be more Conservative voters so not maintaining the triple lock will anger a high %age of Conservative voters, made worse by that she only recently declared it would be honoured.

But we can't have a Government that is one day promising 2 years support and a few days later cutting it back to 6 months and "reviewing". That is no way to Govern a country.

Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Gov't energy discount - energy company calculations

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Oct 2022, 1:11pmSo previously/recently consumers had been promised 2 years under the scheme and now suddenly it's cut to 6 months! I don't see how Truss can stay.

Interesting to see if she keeps her promise about the pensions triple lock. Older generation tends to be more Conservative voters so not maintaining the triple lock will anger a high %age of Conservative voters, made worse by that she only recently declared it would be honoured.

But we can't have a Government that is one day promising 2 years support and a few days later cutting it back to 6 months and "reviewing". That is no way to Govern a country.
And the duration of support was one of the main points of argument in last week's PMQs!

Jonathan
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