UK energy

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Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

simonineaston wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 2:33pm Technology will be largely irrelevant for the following reason. When the climate we (as in higher animals ie mammals, inc. primates...) depend on is subjected to a marked change in the systems that control its make-up, it's likely to spin wildly away from the state its in now. We absolutely reliant on a relatively narrow band of basic measurements - eg temp., oxygen in the atmosphere, etc. etc. Once the core systems flip-flop, fundamentals like the gas make-up of the atmosphere may become unrecognizable. And for us, unusable. There's a motto going the rounds of planetary scientists to wit, "if you want to know what our Earth would be like if everything went wrong, look at Venus..." Venus has no oxygen.
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There is one group of animals which would likely suffer population decline more than most other forms of life if we did start to exit from the Quaternary glaciation, Westernised Man. Which for most life on Earth, would be a very good thing.

I can't see how there's any rational explanation of our atmosphere could become like Venus', the very worst case scenario of a Hothouse Earth would be more friendly to life than when the poles are frozen. With the present arrangements of land mass, there'd also be considerably more habitable land.

However, despite there being no suggestions that we could lose most of our oxygen, we shouldn't take the Atmosphere for granted. It's such a thin layer around us, but so protective and life-sustaining.
Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Mick F wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 2:35pm Heard on R4 earlier and people are being advised to use their washing machines at night.

So, after the 30min wash finishes, we have to get out of bed in the dark, and go outside to hang it on the line. :lol: :lol:

The government will be praying for a mild, breezy winter - so long as the wind blows, we've a lot of electricity feeding the Grid. A couple of 'blocking highs' could lead to many blackouts which could have the effect of making people appreciate what's now taken for granted. I should think generator sales will boom.

There will a generation who couldn't possibly live without the internet, but I suppose they're quite capable of tethering the home computer to the mobile phone.

I also read that leaking just 3% of natural gas to the atmosphere means it's no less harmful than burning coal, AGW-wise. I expect to see some plants re-opened to burn coal, which will send some into a tizz.
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Mick F
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Re: UK energy

Post by Mick F »

We had been married four years? before we bought our first washing machine.

Tell the young people today, and they wouldn't believe it.
Mick F. Cornwall
rjb
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Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

Mick F wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 3:57pm We had been married four years? before we bought our first washing machine.

Tell the young people today, and they wouldn't believe it.
Hilary acquired her washing machine when she married you, or was that the dishwasher. :lol: :lol:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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al_yrpal
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Re: UK energy

Post by al_yrpal »

In January there is a long period when the wind doesnt blow. Happens every year.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Mick F
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Re: UK energy

Post by Mick F »

rjb wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 8:18pm
Mick F wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 3:57pm We had been married four years? before we bought our first washing machine.

Tell the young people today, and they wouldn't believe it.
Hilary acquired her washing machine when she married you, or was that the dishwasher. :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:

First WM we bought was a twin-tub. Must've been 1976 when Daughter1 was in nappies.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Paulatic
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Re: UK energy

Post by Paulatic »

al_yrpal wrote: 8 Oct 2022, 7:38am In January there is a long period when the wind doesnt blow. Happens every year.

Al
That statement reminds me of a guy I know who worked at Winscale. He would be in the pub on a still summers night and say your windmills won’t work in this. I’d just comedown of the hill after gathering sheep in a little more than a breeze :lol:
January 2021
January 2021
https://www.visualcrossing.com/weather/ ... a-services#
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Cugel
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Re: UK energy

Post by Cugel »

Paulatic wrote: 8 Oct 2022, 8:12am
al_yrpal wrote: 8 Oct 2022, 7:38am In January there is a long period when the wind doesnt blow. Happens every year.

Al
That statement reminds me of a guy I know who worked at Winscale. He would be in the pub on a still summers night and say your windmills won’t work in this. I’d just comedown of the hill after gathering sheep in a little more than a breeze :lol:
E4C01C7F-3AB1-4163-8749-16D276B00915.jpeg

https://www.visualcrossing.com/weather/ ... a-services#
Shurely some mishtake, employing real facts rather than those supporting a much clearer black & white version of things. As you must shirly no by now, actual reality is nae gud and the alternatives imagined by a variety of dafties are far more emollient to one's idealogicals.

Anyway, I have reported you to the authorities so that, even though their authority is largely imaginary, they will add you to their anti-growth-criminals list, soon to be employed as a means to weed out those not fit to vote but instead to be sent to Rwanda.

Cugel, thinking of declaring January to be "a long period when unicorns sport and breed on the sunlit uplands, to the delight of growthers everywhere". Make it so!
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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Carlton green
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Re: UK energy

Post by Carlton green »

al_yrpal wrote: 8 Oct 2022, 7:38am In January there is a long period when the wind doesnt blow. Happens every year.

Al
Some years there’s little wind in January, well that’s my recollection. As for driving Wind Turbines I’ve certainly gone past them in still air conditions and the blades haven’t been moving. On the other hand I mostly find that the higher you climb the windier it gets and that calm down in the valley doesn’t automatically mean it will be calm on the hill top - so position your Wind Turbine with a lot of though for local wind conditions.

The sailing ships of yesteryear used wind power to push them around the globe, Sailors then understood that the wind was variable in strength and that sometimes there was none. I’m all for harvesting wind power, but sometimes harvests fail and you then need a good plan ‘b’ (like a large and full store) to help get you by.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Stevek76
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Re: UK energy

Post by Stevek76 »

Biospace wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 10:03pm France is the world capital of nuclear power with ~70% of their energy from their nuclear fleet. EDF runs all 56 of their reactors, and is in charge of all of ours, plus the building of the new EPR.

I'd have thought with so many reactors, their experience and skills would be pretty high? They have huge problems with their nuclear power, EDF has had to be nationalised to stay afloat because of the massive costs.
They lost most of their skills in the same way the uk did, their current fleet was largely built decades ago (hence the recent increasing maintenance outages as, like ours, they're at end of service), the main difference is they just had far more of them, hence spending decades with next to no co2/kWh.

As for being nationalised, don't really see an issue with that, they should have stayed nationalised all along so profits during the long years of generation could be reinvested rather than ending up in shareholder pockets. Nuclear is a very long term form of generation with high capital costs and low (but lasting) rate of return, that's never going to be suited to private investment which would far rather build something with lower investment, higher rate of return and don't care if that something externalises costs and problems (which both FF and solar/wind do).
The environmental footprint of nuclear looks good if you measure it as a simple CO2/kWh figure, but there's a lot of carbon footprint associated with decommissioning and storing nuclear waste. Those genuinely concerned with unnecessary FF use would also insist that a power plant which is a decade late and several billion over budget has a huge effect on carbon emissions.
A fair chunk of the blame of which lies entirely with 'environmentalists' and their messed up rationalisation of risk; France and uk should have been developing replacements far before they eventually did, the co2 cost of that will be significant, as was the cost of Germany switching plants off early.

Most co2/kwh estimates do include both construction and decommissioning, still ends up bettering everything other than hydro and geothermal while most wind and solar co2/kwh completely exclude the costs of storage/interconnects and other things required to make them viable in eliminating FF.

Though as i said, things need to be considered as the whole generation/demand system, not as isolated marginal costs and rates ...
Here's a conclusion from https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/sussexenergy ... -research/
if countries want to lower emissions as substantially, rapidly and cost-effectively as possible, they should prioritise support for renewables rather than nuclear power. Pursuit of nuclear strategies risks taking up resources that could be used more effectively and suppressing the uptake of renewable energy
... which is sadly what far too much of the academic output on energy, just like this one, doesn't do. They focus on emission reductions here, but from what starting point? Obviously if you're 100% fossil fuel then certainly things that get on the ground quickly are going to reduce emissions the fastest, however returns will diminish as solar/wind generation % increases and effective load factors drop whilst the storage tech remains in the x years off vapourware box (with fusion and driverless cars) and fossil fuels still have to fill the gap.
cycle tramp
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Re: UK energy

Post by cycle tramp »

..electric generating tidal lagoons...

..the tidal flown is a known quantifiable amount.. development of the infrastructure could include shops, houses, cafes and after it's creation the lagoons themselves could support kayaking and sailing..

.with support from the wildlife trusts the lagoon could support wildlife..

...and may even be able to support the production of foods like shellfish and oysters

..further more advancement in tidal energy may slow the loss of UK landmass to tidal erosion...
cycle tramp
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Re: UK energy

Post by cycle tramp »

..small scale water wheels..

In Lyme Regis is a waterwheel, originally used for grinding bread. Its now got an electric generator installed. Peak output it delivers power to 800 houses (if I remember rightly) that's 800 houses which are powered off grid.

Historically there were many more such buildings. Where there is support- they could be revitalised to provide electricity.
cycle tramp
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Re: UK energy

Post by cycle tramp »

Retro fitting passive solar water heating and air source heat pumps to appropriate existing buildings...
rjb
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Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

cycle tramp wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 6:06pm ..small scale water wheels..

In Lyme Regis is a waterwheel, originally used for grinding bread. Its now got an electric generator installed. Peak output it delivers power to 800 houses (if I remember rightly) that's 800 houses which are powered off grid.

Historically there were many more such buildings. Where there is support- they could be revitalised to provide electricity.
Not 800 sadly, only capable of delivering electric to 6 homes. :shock:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/ar ... ture.shtml

The output is approx 32,000 kWh, roughly the same as 10 houses with a 4kw array of solar panels on their roofs. Every new build should have solar PV incorporated into their roofs. :idea:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
cycle tramp
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Re: UK energy

Post by cycle tramp »

rjb wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 7:03pm
cycle tramp wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 6:06pm ..small scale water wheels..

In Lyme Regis is a waterwheel, originally used for grinding bread. Its now got an electric generator installed. Peak output it delivers power to 800 houses (if I remember rightly) that's 800 houses which are powered off grid.

Historically there were many more such buildings. Where there is support- they could be revitalised to provide electricity.
Not 800 sadly, only capable of delivering electric to 6 homes. :shock:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/ar ... ture.shtml

The output is approx 32,000 kWh, roughly the same as 10 houses with a 4kw array of solar panels on their roofs. Every new build should have solar PV incorporated into their roofs. :idea:
Damn, that's much less impressive. However every mickle makes a muckle. I guess the question is how many water wills could you place along a stretch of water without harming wildlife and without reducing the flow of water so that flooding is caused..
However. Yes for solar roof/passive hot water heating on roofs.
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