UK energy

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Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 27 Feb 2023, 9:22am
3) Marketing is always bull - they are basically zero point emissions (in that they don't emit where they travel), though they do wear (i.e. lose some tyre mass).

Yes, we need a better understanding of embedded energy costs, but since we have the fossil fuel industry dictating government policy at the moment I have no hope at all.
And there is a huge push towards designing batteries (in particular) which are easier to pull apart for recycling.
The thing being with the 'Zero Emission' moniker is that this is the term Government uses for them, not just car maker marketing. The BBC backs this falsehood up, saying "While electric vehicles (EVs) may not emit any carbon dioxide during their working lives..."

There will be a huge push to work out how best to recycle, at present while we recycle almost all traditional 'lead acid' types, "Currently, globally, it's very hard to get detailed figures for what percentage of lithium-ion batteries are recycled, but the value everyone quotes is about 5%," says Dr Anderson. "In some parts of the world it's considerably less."

Both quotes from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56574779
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: UK energy

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Lead acid recycling is an excellent example - how much more valuable are LiIon batterys which are several times the size...

The reason that there isn't a huge recycling industry is that the batteries last too long - they are recyclable, there just aren't many coming out of vehicles and needing recycling, because before you do that they have a second life as grid storage (or in an EV conversion).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

It's good to see eBay listings for 18650 batteries from laptop packs, typically it's 1 or 2 which have failed in a 6 cell pack. I've split these packs and used the good ones, they've always been high quality. Not sure how all the failed ones are dealt with, or failed packs which people discard without realising there are still cells in perfect order within.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: UK energy

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Laptop packs are that irritatingly "perfectly bad" size, where there is enough of it, and enough of them in total to make a substantial quantity of battery, but individually collecting them is a bit of a pain.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Good to see something positive in the news, heating swimming pools with waste energy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64939558.amp
rjb
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Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

Biospace wrote: 27 Feb 2023, 4:28pm It's good to see eBay listings for 18650 batteries from laptop packs, typically it's 1 or 2 which have failed in a 6 cell pack. I've split these packs and used the good ones, they've always been high quality. Not sure how all the failed ones are dealt with, or failed packs which people discard without realising there are still cells in perfect order within.
A link would be useful. I opened up a battery pack from a failed Parkside (Lidl) drill. Only 2 batteries from 5 were usable. And replacement battery packs were unobtainium. :(
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: UK energy

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Biospace wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 2:09pm Good to see something positive in the news, heating swimming pools with waste energy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64939558.amp
Maybe realising that there is no such thing as waste energy - just energy you haven't figured out a use for yet.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

rjb wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 2:31pm
Biospace wrote: 27 Feb 2023, 4:28pm It's good to see eBay listings for 18650 batteries from laptop packs, typically it's 1 or 2 which have failed in a 6 cell pack. I've split these packs and used the good ones, they've always been high quality. Not sure how all the failed ones are dealt with, or failed packs which people discard without realising there are still cells in perfect order within.
A link would be useful. I opened up a battery pack from a failed Parkside (Lidl) drill. Only 2 batteries from 5 were usable. And replacement battery packs were unobtainium. :(
I deliberately didn't provide direct links as a level of battery knowledge is important. Only do this sort of thing if you fully understand what you're doing.

Building up a battery pack with reclaimed 18650s from one application to be used in another isn't something I suggested or would recommend, far easier and also safer to look for an existing Parkside drill battery.
Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 3:18pm
Biospace wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 2:09pm Good to see something positive in the news, heating swimming pools with waste energy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64939558.amp
Maybe realising that there is no such thing as waste energy - just energy you haven't figured out a use for yet.
Using the vernacular rather than speaking like a physics teacher :wink:

Yes, my son sometimes mentions waste energy when he's climbed to the top of a mountain and wishes there was a smooth road on which to freewheel back down (on the bike he didn't carry up). "How does the view make up for all that energy used, Dad?"
Biospace
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Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Jeremy Hunt accused of ‘£20bn gamble’ on nuclear energy and carbon capture.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-capture
pete75
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Re: UK energy

Post by pete75 »

Biospace wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 3:36pm
rjb wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 2:31pm
Biospace wrote: 27 Feb 2023, 4:28pm It's good to see eBay listings for 18650 batteries from laptop packs, typically it's 1 or 2 which have failed in a 6 cell pack. I've split these packs and used the good ones, they've always been high quality. Not sure how all the failed ones are dealt with, or failed packs which people discard without realising there are still cells in perfect order within.
A link would be useful. I opened up a battery pack from a failed Parkside (Lidl) drill. Only 2 batteries from 5 were usable. And replacement battery packs were unobtainium. :(
I deliberately didn't provide direct links as a level of battery knowledge is important. Only do this sort of thing if you fully understand what you're doing.

Building up a battery pack with reclaimed 18650s from one application to be used in another isn't something I suggested or would recommend, far easier and also safer to look for an existing Parkside drill battery.
Which are currently on sal ein our local Lidl so will be in all the others as well.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
rjb
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Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

pete75 wrote: 16 Mar 2023, 5:32pm
Biospace wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 3:36pm
rjb wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 2:31pm

A link would be useful. I opened up a battery pack from a failed Parkside (Lidl) drill. Only 2 batteries from 5 were usable. And replacement battery packs were unobtainium. :(
I deliberately didn't provide direct links as a level of battery knowledge is important. Only do this sort of thing if you fully understand what you're doing.

Building up a battery pack with reclaimed 18650s from one application to be used in another isn't something I suggested or would recommend, far easier and also safer to look for an existing Parkside drill battery.
Which are currently on sal ein our local Lidl so will be in all the others as well.
Yes but they changed the shape of the battery so current offerings don't fit rendering my previous version scrap which was only 2 years old. :(
They shouldn't be allowed to do this.

Lesson learnt, I gone back to my mains powered one. :D
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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al_yrpal
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Re: UK energy

Post by al_yrpal »

I experienced a similar problem with the battery on my Aldi drill. Never again! New drill was a Ryobi One+ job with 2 batteries. Much better drill and the batteries fit many other Ryobi devices including a really nice tyre pump.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: UK energy

Post by Jdsk »

rjb wrote: 16 Mar 2023, 7:14pm ...
Yes but they changed the shape of the battery so current offerings don't fit rendering my previous version scrap which was only 2 years old.
They shouldn't be allowed to do this.
...
There's enormous effort going into improved sustainability of batteries, eg:
"New EU regulatory framework for batteries. Setting sustainability requirements":
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/ ... 337_EN.pdf

Those power tool batteries are classified as "portable batteries". I can't find anything on harmonisation across manufacturers. : - (

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: UK energy

Post by simonineaston »

So much depends on the so-called bms installed alongside the cells. In fact, I imagine that the majority of fires start on the boards of cheap bm systems (only guessing). There's a developing history to do with the popular hand-held, battery-powered vacuum cleaners (popular for good reason in that they're light, easy to use, perfect for relatively delicate waist level domestic items that would be difficult to clean with a duster, eg keyboards, guitars, book shelves, picture frames etc.etc., but I digress...). They often incorporate an led which tells the user the state of the battery pack and many folk now report that their led's gone red (or whatever) and there's no power. Enterprising individuals who don't wish to spring for a whole new battery pack are digging in to the dud one and finding that it's relatively easy to swap individual cells, only to find that the bms can't be reset. Manufacturers on the other hand, tell the cross user that the bms has conservative settings in order to protect the user from fire damage. The convenient (from the pov of the maker) side effect is that when one or more cells goes low, then the whole battery pack has to be replaced, at greater cost to the user...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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