Absolutely no chance. Worst case scenario, price increases, extraction from seawater becomes economic.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 3:24pmLithium will run out, quite probably sooner than oilroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 3:21pmI agree with you that resources for batteries are problematic.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 3:18pm
It's a resource and it's finite that's both precise and factual,
There enough lithium in the world to replace all existing cars with electric, not much more.
If that lithium is extractable is another thing, it would require strip mining vast tracks of land and considerable eco damage to do so. That may not be at all popular or eco onical viable unless the price of lithium increased substantially,
It's dirty and subject to the wims of the countries that have it, how much they want for it and how much they are prepared to extract ,very much like oil
But it's not at all the same as oil. Oil will run out. Elemental resources for renewables are far more recyclable and sustainable.
UK energy
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Re: UK energy
Re: UK energy
So how much is a battery for a family car when sea water become financially viable.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:06pmAbsolutely no chance. Worst case scenario, price increases, extraction from seawater becomes economic.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 3:24pmLithium will run out, quite probably sooner than oilroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 3:21pm
I agree with you that resources for batteries are problematic.
But it's not at all the same as oil. Oil will run out. Elemental resources for renewables are far more recyclable and sustainable.
Producing lithium for vehicles that no one can afford isn't solving the problem is it ?
On that basis we will never run out of oil either, there always a bit floating in the sea somewhere
Re: UK energy
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Re: UK energy
Not sure what your point is. If Lithium becomes more expensive, electric car prices go up.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:15pmSo how much is a battery for a family car when sea water become financially viable.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:06pmAbsolutely no chance. Worst case scenario, price increases, extraction from seawater becomes economic.
Producing lithium for vehicles that no one can afford isn't solving the problem is it ?
On that basis we will never run out of oil either, there always a bit floating in the sea somewhere
When oil runs out, petrol cars don't exist, and if we extract it all the planet fries. Both of which seem rather more problematic.
Re: UK energy
Hydrogen has potential, but it seems no end of technical problems, I'm wondering how pumped hydro works in cars, there is it seems a significant issue with sites to do pump hydro for general storage and significant losses. It not being a perpetual motion machine
Re: UK energy
Well it will get significantly more exspensive long before it runs short, electric cars are not really scalable, a fact I believe they know but are not making known to the public.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:26pmNot sure what your point is. If Lithium becomes more expensive, electric car prices go up.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:15pmSo how much is a battery for a family car when sea water become financially viable.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 4:06pm
Absolutely no chance. Worst case scenario, price increases, extraction from seawater becomes economic.
Producing lithium for vehicles that no one can afford isn't solving the problem is it ?
On that basis we will never run out of oil either, there always a bit floating in the sea somewhere
When oil runs out, petrol cars don't exist, and if we extract it all the planet fries. Both of which seem rather more problematic.
If your answer is the end of individual powered transport for all but the mega rich, that does solve that problem but creates a lot of others. Not least no one will vote for it.
I'm not accepting of the worse possible outcomes from climate change as being a fair reflection of what the future holds, so appeals to everyone frying doesn't seem a valid point to me,
Last edited by jois on 30 Sep 2022, 4:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: UK energy
There are plenty of niches where hydrogen fuel will have a major rôle: furnaces, space heating, energy storage, shipping, and some special cases of surface transport such as ports and quarries. But car-like objects isn't one of them. The transmission losses are too high, the additional infrastructure is too expensive, and there's a better technology already rolling out rapidly.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Re: UK energy
I was talking about storage technology for "when the Sun does not shine" or "when the wind does not blow".
Ian
Re: UK energy
If your going to do pumped hydro you need giants electric dams, we are a bit short of those or places to put themPsamathe wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 5:32pmI was talking about storage technology for "when the Sun does not shine" or "when the wind does not blow".
Ian
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Re: UK energy
Do you think they ar scalable, I've already ran through the lithium issues with you, that aside there is a need for billions in infrastructure, public and private of which their is little sign and little hope in the current eccomic climate and that's just this country, third world countries have exactly no chanceroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 5:59pmOh great, an internet conspiracy theorist. Just what we need.
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Re: UK energy
I'm not discussing with a conspiracy theorist, thanks all the same.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:24pmDo you think they ar scalable, I've already ran through the lithium issues with you, that aside there is a need for billions in infrastructure, public and private of which their is little sign and little hope in the current eccomic climate and that's just this country, third world countries have exactly no chanceroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 5:59pmOh great, an internet conspiracy theorist. Just what we need.
Re: UK energy
Just denigrate me as I disagree, very liberal and matureroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:26pmI'm not discussing with a conspiracy theorist, thanks all the same.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:24pmDo you think they ar scalable, I've already ran through the lithium issues with you, that aside there is a need for billions in infrastructure, public and private of which their is little sign and little hope in the current eccomic climate and that's just this country, third world countries have exactly no chanceroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 5:59pm
Oh great, an internet conspiracy theorist. Just what we need.
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Re: UK energy
You believe there's a conspiracy to withhold the facts about electric vehicles from the public:jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:27pmJust denigrate me as I disagree, very liberal and matureroubaixtuesday wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:26pmI'm not discussing with a conspiracy theorist, thanks all the same.jois wrote: ↑30 Sep 2022, 6:24pm
Do you think they ar scalable, I've already ran through the lithium issues with you, that aside there is a need for billions in infrastructure, public and private of which their is little sign and little hope in the current eccomic climate and that's just this country, third world countries have exactly no chance
"electric cars are not really scalable, a fact I believe they know but are not making known to the public"
Re: UK energy
It's one of a number of options that works (and has been working for many years).
Ian