UK energy

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Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 14 May 2023, 2:14pm I certainly appreciate what you're saying. We really don't use much now. We did in the UK though, as I had larger supplies of firewood available to me and a less high tech central heating system. And crappier houses.

Timber is the main farmed product here. Very little of it is actually burned though. Almost all of it goes for other purposes, such as wood pulp, paper, sawmill products. It's quite diverse.

I'm anticipating some eco-warrior berating me for using a Scandinavian torch when camping at some point in the future when others are sitting round a hologram of a fire heated by electricity (courtesy of nuclear power), eating their powered, farmed insects. I'll be accused of mis-information, environmental destruction and killing the planet, despite having only cycled 40 miles compared with their 120 mile BEV journey. :mrgreen:

By the way, does Sweden still transport much wood by floating it down rivers?
Jon in Sweden
Posts: 611
Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Biospace wrote: 14 May 2023, 3:25pm
By the way, does Sweden still transport much wood by floating it down rivers?
I don't think it's ever been done like that here. That's maybe Canada you're thinking of.

It's all done by timber lorries here. Larger than the UK. Usually 75t, rather than 44t
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: UK energy

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Biospace wrote: 14 May 2023, 3:13pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 May 2023, 2:15pm Quote system is a pain at times.
Yes, you'll see I deleted some of the text when I saw you have replied, covering your wild claims (that BEV tyres are being found to last over 2.5 times longer than on diesel vehicles in a fleet) by saying there were "confounding factors". :wink:
Well - that's a direct quote from the fleet manager of British Gas... so you can assume he's talking <i>[rude word removed]</i>, or you can assume that as it's his job - he knows what he's talking about.

Clearly you choose to ignore him, and any other experience that disagrees with your assumptions.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 15 May 2023, 9:43am Well - that's a direct quote from the fleet manager of British Gas... so you can assume he's talking <i>[rude word removed]</i>, or you can assume that as it's his job - he knows what he's talking about.

Clearly you choose to ignore him, and any other experience that disagrees with your assumptions.
I simply questioned the validity of the claim, as any reasonable-thinking person would. What are these "confounding factors" you talk of? Where is the data to back up the claims?
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 15 May 2023, 6:44am
Biospace wrote: 14 May 2023, 3:25pm
By the way, does Sweden still transport much wood by floating it down rivers?
I don't think it's ever been done like that here. That's maybe Canada you're thinking of.

It's all done by timber lorries here. Larger than the UK. Usually 75t, rather than 44t

From what I've been told, transporting timber by river was common well into the 1960s in Sweden and one of the first uses of dynamite (a Nobel invention) was to free up log jams.

I imagine more than a few Scandinavians travelled to Canada with their logging skills in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Jdsk »

New report from the UK Business Council for Sustainable Development:
"Economic Opportunity For A Sustainable Economy":
https://ukbcsd.co.uk/report2023/

Guardian coverage:
"UK could unlock £70bn a year in renewable energy, report claims":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ort-claims

Jonathan
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Jdsk wrote: 15 May 2023, 1:26pm New report from the UK Business Council for Sustainable Development
Thanks for posting those links, it's a little depressing that an inability to connect to the Grid is preventing business investment in renewables from happening. However, I'm not aware of a bottleneck for domestic renewable connections - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... even-years which is encouraging.

I can't understand why legislation doesn't encourage large modern warehouses, supermarkets and so on to fit PV panels to their roofs, rather than filling fields with them. With the rollout of EVs, we need every kWh possible. Tidal is clearly more than this country feels capable of tackling.

Perhaps the most difficult sell in this money-driven, consumerist world is that of reducing demand since no influential body benefits monetarily. It seems the only driver is ever-increasing prices - an effective, but rather third world approach.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Jdsk »

Biospace wrote: 15 May 2023, 5:04pm
Jdsk wrote: 15 May 2023, 1:26pm New report from the UK Business Council for Sustainable Development
Thanks for posting those links, it's a little depressing that an inability to connect to the Grid is preventing business investment in renewables from happening. However, I'm not aware of a bottleneck for domestic renewable connections - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... even-years which is encouraging.
...
"Grid connection delays for low-carbon projects ‘unacceptable’, says Ofgem":
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... gem-energy
includes:

The energy watchdog for Great Britainwill label the decade-long wait to connect low-carbon projects to the electricity grid as “unacceptable”, amid tensions over a “blame game” for a mounting backlog of green power projects.

Jonathan
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

The National Employment Savings Trust (Nest), responsible for managing over £27 billion in assets, has delivered a blow to the government’s ambition of expanding the country’s nuclear power output.

A Nest spokesperson told ELN: “Nuclear energy is within our investable universe but there are no current plans for investing directly into nuclear infrastructure.”.

https://www.cityam.com/uk-state-pension ... izewell-c/
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

Battery cars en masse present an interesting problem for our electricity Grid, not in that there won't be sufficient energy available but in how to deliver many relatively short bursts of high energy to re-fuel cars quickly. Too many cars using rapid chargers in a small area could overload substations and other equipment and instead of replacing and upgrading all of this, there is the potential for local storage.

Chemical battery prices may continue to fall but it's possible that mechanical flywheel storage could power rapid charging stations as the more environmentally friendly and economic solution.

https://www.zoozpower.com/
rjb
Posts: 7200
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

Biospace wrote: 25 May 2023, 3:09pm Battery cars en masse present an interesting problem for our electricity Grid, not in that there won't be sufficient energy available but in how to deliver many relatively short bursts of high energy to re-fuel cars quickly. Too many cars using rapid chargers in a small area could overload substations and other equipment and instead of replacing and upgrading all of this, there is the potential for local storage.

Chemical battery prices may continue to fall but it's possible that mechanical flywheel storage could power rapid charging stations as the more environmentally friendly and economic solution.

https://www.zoozpower.com/

Think of the electrical supply grid as a road network. If demand doubles as predicted to charge up all those vehicles then it's like the road network trying to cope with twice as many motor vehicles. IE new wider roads will be required, so read bigger cables and infrastructure to meet that demand. This is a long term investment and won't happen overnight. Our electricity demand profile may even move to an overnight peak to meet car charging requirements and the end of cheap off peak tariffs.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

rjb wrote: 25 May 2023, 4:13pm Think of the electrical supply grid as a road network. If demand doubles as predicted to charge up all those vehicles then it's like the road network trying to cope with twice as many motor vehicles. IE new wider roads will be required, so read bigger cables and infrastructure to meet that demand. This is a long term investment and won't happen overnight. Our electricity demand profile may even move to an overnight peak to meet car charging requirements and the end of cheap off peak tariffs.
Or like a water distribution network, with a limit to how many taps can be turned on full in a given area without pressure reducing considerably or local supplies running dry, even with larger pipes and pumps.

Even the very largest pipes and pumps would not prevent supply problems, so a system of reservoirs helps prevent this. I believe England is short of capacity at present.
rjb
Posts: 7200
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: UK energy

Post by rjb »

The current spell of sunshine is forcing the wholesale electric price to go negative, -£150 / MWhr at the moment ( between 2 and 3 pm). Shame its not being given away to us consumers. :lol: Anyone able to benefit? Octopus Energy customers perhaps. Some tariffs tracked the wholesale price so would have benefited by using more when it was in that negative state. Not much point in putting the heating on though, charging your e car perhaps.
https://grid.iamkate.com/
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Biospace »

A wood pellet plant in Mississippi, US, which processes trees into wooden pellets which are then transported to be burnt at Drax’s power station has been a “major” source of hazardous air pollutants from January 2021 until late last year. The plant is owned by Drax. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ons-limits

As noted on this forum, this can only be treated as 'green energy' because of the wording of the Tokyo 92 summit. It is anything but 'green' and is coming under increasing scrutiny. Not only does its processing and transport create significant pollution and carbon through burning fossil fuel, not only the vast amounts of carbon its burning releases into our atmosphere but also the decimation of millions of hectares of historic woodland.

In 2021 Drax 'earned' £893 million in direct subsidy for the burning of forests.

Screenshot 2023-05-30 at 14.43.27.png
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK energy

Post by Jdsk »

Colocation of solar farm (49.9 MW) and a big battery (49.5 MW/ 99 MWh):
https://theenergyst.com/19552-2/
https://www.cerogeneration.com/news/cer ... -pv-plant/

"This battery will help the UK energy system to better match green energy generation to demand, storing excess clean energy when there is an oversupply for use when there is a shortage or additional demand. It will maximise the site’s efficiency by connecting to the transmission network using the same connection point as the solar farm, thereby enabling a greater output of clean energy, helping to lower costs for consumers and providing a secure and reliable power source."

Jonathan
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