Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
PH
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by PH »

jois wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 2:29pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 2:21pm To clarify, I am aiming for a bike which will still ride well with the power off.
So gearing which relies on power being there does not seem like a good idea.
Depends what you want to spend, the cheaper end of the market will not ride well with no power, okish is the best youl get, they are heavy power on or off
I don't think it's only price dependant, maybe when considering two bikes of similar type at different price points, but there's also plenty of top end E-bikes that won't be nice to ride unassisted.
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deliquium
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by deliquium »

I've owned a Boardman HYB 8.9E for a few months now and find it rides without e assist, like my 'ordinary touring type bikes' when on the flat, up mild inclines and downhills. Which contributes to easily achieving circa 50 mile rides with hills and assist (am in Snowdonia).

It has a single chainring* and a 10 speed cassette giving a gear range of 27.2" up to 88.9". Which I find satisfactory. It's slightly lower than the supplied spec as I changed the chainring and rear cassette to suit my needs better.

* Double chainrings are available on a similar framed Vitus E-Substance - but with drop handlebars.

Both the Boardman and the Vitus will take mudguards and rear rack.

Can't compare it to riding a hub powered e-bike as I chose the Fazua motor Boardman over a Ribble Hybrid ALe
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Dingdong
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by Dingdong »

Surely the whole point of an ebike is to have battery powered assistance! :lol:
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by peterb »

Dingdong wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:09am Surely the whole point of an ebike is to have battery powered assistance! :lol:
- when you need it! Given the current state of battery technology, using assistance only when needed is the best way of achieving a good range. To be legal, E-bike assistance is limited to 15.5 mph, riding at speeds above uses one's leg power alone.
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Vantage
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by Vantage »

Batteries don't last all that long though. 60-70 miles if living in a hilly area. Useless for the club imperial century rides.
Some folk want the power specifically for hill climbs.
I went for mid drive on my wayfarer. No good for non powered riding as the resistance from the motor is quite alot. I have my PAS level 1 with just enough juice to overcome that resistance so it's as close to non powered riding as I can get. Bafang BBSO2.

The other Chinese company (who's name evades me atm) works from torque sensing which would be even closer to non powered riding.

Hub power may be the best option for Littlegreycat I think.
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simonineaston
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by simonineaston »

I recognize the OP's dilema. I really wanted a choice that felt as much like a non-electric bike and so decided to adapt my Brompton (see nano website here). I've been really pleased with the conversion and can confirm that the Brompton feels very much like its old, pre-conversion self. I chose to raise the overall gearing slightly, as I imagined, correctly, that the assistance from the motor would compensate for the extra effort.
However, that fact remains that the lightweight battery that means the bike feels and behaves very much like its pre-conversion self has a limited range. I don't think there's any way to get around this awkward fact, at least not with the sort of battery tech available at the mo'. You can either have a bike that weighs a lot and has a long range , or else a bike that's lightweight and more conventional in feel / behaviour but which has a limited range.
My Brompton uses a Bosch 36v 4Ah battery, which is compact and light - at least as far as batteries go - but the range is limited to around 20 miles, tops. I don't think there's a way of squaring this circle - the total weight of the e-bike is closely linked to its range.
compact battery with limited range
compact battery with limited range
One way that might deal with this is to convert a cycle that suits you well and build in to the conversion the possibility of switching between several batteries - lighter & more compact for short rides and bigger & heavier for longer rides.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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simonineaston
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by simonineaston »

For comparison, the battery fitted to the Vitus e-substance, linked by deliquium, is 36v / 7aH.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by hemo »

peterb wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:21am
Dingdong wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:09am Surely the whole point of an ebike is to have battery powered assistance! :lol:
- when you need it! Given the current state of battery technology, using assistance only when needed is the best way of achieving a good range. To be legal, E-bike assistance is limited to 15.5 mph, riding at speeds above uses one's leg power alone.
EN15194 allows for 15.5mph +/- 10% so one can have a system that is configured for 17.05mph max.
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by hemo »

Unpowered riding is handy is one wants to keep a bike light by using a smaller battery to help save 1 or 2kg.
Using the power just for inclines is one way to eke out the range, oem bikes may be not easy to know which are good unpowered without feed back which we see on this forum regarding the road ebikes.
Other wise for kits or non oem motors, the tsdz2 rides very well unpowered also the bafang lightweight g370 front hub does so as well. Forget the BBS mid drive for unpowered riding as it is a bit of pig to ride.

With my roadrat build with g370 hub, the alfine 8 offers more resistance in use then the hub motor.
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by Dingdong »

I fancy the g370 but I'm unaccustomed to front wheel motors, what are the upsides/pitfalls of front drive bafang?
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by peterb »

hemo wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 2:29pm
peterb wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:21am
Dingdong wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:09am Surely the whole point of an ebike is to have battery powered assistance! :lol:
- when you need it! Given the current state of battery technology, using assistance only when needed is the best way of achieving a good range. To be legal, E-bike assistance is limited to 15.5 mph, riding at speeds above uses one's leg power alone.
EN15194 allows for 15.5mph +/- 10% so one can have a system that is configured for 17.05mph max.
OK, OK - lets pick nits - that might be the letter of the law, but aren't most commercially available bikes limited to 25 kph/15.5 mph? I have a RIbble SLE and an Orbea Gain and I can't tell EXACTLY when the assistance cuts out, but it is in the region of 15.5 mph, perhaps 16.
25kph/15.5mph is the figure quoted by many, if not all, suppliers of complete e-bikes in my experience.
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by hemo »

I'm not nit picking, just stating the actual rules regarding EN15194 should any one have an issue with plod who try and play the hard and fast rule of 25kmh/15.5mph.
Most bikes do appear to run with 15.5mph but there are some who may push the boundary to the limit.

The tsdz2 is one such motor cutting off at 17mph.
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by peterb »

hemo wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 3:34pm I'm not nit picking, just stating the actual rules regarding EN15194 should any one have an issue with plod who try and play the hard and fast rule of 25kmh/15.5mph.
Most bikes do appear to run with 15.5mph but there are some who may push the boundary to the limit.

The tsdz2 is one such motor cutting off at 17mph.
Fair enough - It has often been asked before, but how on earth are police going to determine whether the bike is being assisted or not?
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Vetus Ossa
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by Vetus Ossa »

peterb wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 4:05pm
hemo wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 3:34pm I'm not nit picking, just stating the actual rules regarding EN15194 should any one have an issue with plod who try and play the hard and fast rule of 25kmh/15.5mph.
Most bikes do appear to run with 15.5mph but there are some who may push the boundary to the limit.

The tsdz2 is one such motor cutting off at 17mph.
Fair enough - It has often been asked before, but how on earth are police going to determine whether the bike is being assisted or not?
In my home city, Plymouth, I often see deliveroo riders going uphill at 25/30mph without pedalling.
They are easy to spot but as far as I know plod has never stopped one.
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Re: Electric curious - Which? review and gears

Post by peterb »

Vetus Ossa wrote: 7 Oct 2022, 4:54pm
peterb wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 4:05pm

Fair enough - It has often been asked before, but how on earth are police going to determine whether the bike is being assisted or not?
In my home city, Plymouth, I often see deliveroo riders going uphill at 25/30mph without pedalling.
They are easy to spot but as far as I know plod has never stopped one.
It would appear the police aren't very interested. I'm thinking more of bikes that have been clocked to exceed the cut-off by only 5mph or so and are being ridden in a more sensible way.
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