Electric curious - Which? review and gears

[LittleGreyCat]

I'm just starting to consider an electric bike because it is taking me a long time to get back to my previous level of average fitness.

My first stops for information are the recent Which? report and this forum.

Previous eBike experience consists of test riding a friend's converted hybrid which has a front hub motor.
This was a good experience as it felt like a "normal" bike with me a lot fitter.
I think the conversion cost around £500 a couple of years back and was from the USA so almost certainly more expensive now.

My main concern over manufactured eBikes is the small number of gears, and the general comments about hill climbing.

I currently (when I can) ride either a 3 * 7 traditional (1995) MTB or a recent Spa Wayfarer with 3 * 9 gears.
These can get me up hills and along the flat without too much pain, although I did reduce the gearing on the Wayfarer to improve hill climbing ability.

The bike I tried was a Scott hybrid with 3 * 8 gears, which coincidentally I used to own before selling it on because although it was a lovely bike the seat post angle was wrong for long term comfort.
This set up seemed pretty good - wide range of gears and the ability to still cycle effectively if you flatten the battery.
[Noting that from my first reading of the Which? report I didn't see a section on how easy it was to ride up and down hills and get home with a flat battery.]
I imagine that granny gearing would also get round the issue of hill starting which is also mentioned in the reviews.

So why the limited number of gears on production eBikes?
Is it because of the complications with central and rear motors and only becomes simpler with a front hub motor?
Or perhaps it is the perceived market for in town commuting and local shopping?

[jois]

I'm just starting to consider an electric bike because it is taking me a long time to get back to my previous level of average fitness.

My first stops for information are the recent Which? report and this forum.

Previous eBike experience consists of test riding a friend's converted hybrid which has a front hub motor.
This was a good experience as it felt like a "normal" bike with me a lot fitter.
I think the conversion cost around £500 a couple of years back and was from the USA so almost certainly more expensive now.

My main concern over manufactured eBikes is the small number of gears, and the general comments about hill climbing.

I currently (when I can) ride either a 3 * 7 traditional (1995) MTB or a recent Spa Wayfarer with 3 * 9 gears.
These can get me up hills and along the flat without too much pain, although I did reduce the gearing on the Wayfarer to improve hill climbing ability.

The bike I tried was a Scott hybrid with 3 * 8 gears, which coincidentally I used to own before selling it on because although it was a lovely bike the seat post angle was wrong for long term comfort.
This set up seemed pretty good - wide range of gears and the ability to still cycle effectively if you flatten the battery.
[Noting that from my first reading of the Which? report I didn't see a section on how easy it was to ride up and down hills and get home with a flat battery.]
I imagine that granny gearing would also get round the issue of hill starting which is also mentioned in the reviews.

So why the limited number of gears on production eBikes?
Is it because of the complications with central and rear motors and only becomes simpler with a front hub motor?
Or perhaps it is the perceived market for in town commuting and local shopping?

I suspect it's because a) you don't need them with the torque of an ebike

And b) they need to be quite robust if your putting the torque of an bike through them.

I'm far from convinced you need more than 8 anyway

[PH]

First have a fairly good idea what you want from it, I think they broadly fall into two categories:
Something that rides as close to possible to a non assisted bike, but offers some assistance on the tough bits, pulling away, hill climbing, headwinds. Hopefully without presenting too much hinderance when not using the assistance.
Or
A bike that rides differently all the time, constantly increasing your input , such bikes make all your riding easier. They are reliant on the assistance to make riding pleasurable. I have a bike like this, a Trek Allant, it's simply not nice to ride with the power off.

Once you have an idea of the type of bike you're looking for, there's no substitute for trying as many as possible. I'm not usually a fan of test rides, but the difference between drive systems is worth experiencing. If you have one near you, Halfords offer half day test rides. I didn't use them, but did get to try six bikes before buying and it did influence my decision.

As for the gearing, mine is 9 speed and I simply don't need any more, it'll climb any hill by upping the power, though there's a technique to keeping the motor spinning happily and not stalling. At the other end I've lost a couple of high gears, but as said it isn't pleasant riding without assistance so anything over 25kph is wasted.

[emleyman]

I did a rear wheel hub conversion on a bike of mine. It originally had 3 x 8 gearing with 28-38-48 front and 11-32 rear.
After riding it for a while I've removed the front triple and just have a 42T single chainring with guard now. I find with the added elec assist it's plenty for getting up hills. I manage 15% hills easily whilst keeping the speed of the motor up at about 8-9mph.
Much less than that and a hub motor starts to become inefficient and generate a lot of heat, so very low gears wouldn't be any use with the motor anyway.
There's no reason why you can't keep them if you wanted to ride with the motor off, but I didn't see the point. I only use the motor for hills and have lowered it's cutoff to about 12mph so it isn't used on the flat.
If you have a crank drive motor then I think you are restricted to a single chainring.

[LittleGreyCat]

To clarify, I am aiming for a bike which will still ride well with the power off.
So gearing which relies on power being there does not seem like a good idea.

[emleyman]

You are looking for a geared hub motor then. These have a clutch that allows the hub to freewheel when not being driven. Have a look at the Whoosh bikes website. I'm not necessarily suggesting you want one of their bikes, although they get good reviews, but they have a summary of various hub motor characteristics and sizes /weights. It might give you an idea of what to look at.

[jois]

To clarify, I am aiming for a bike which will still ride well with the power off.
So gearing which relies on power being there does not seem like a good idea.

Depends what you want to spend, the cheaper end of the market will not ride well with no power, okish is the best youl get, they are heavy power on or off

[emleyman]

I think that tends to be true for cheap 'e-bikes' , but you can buy good kits to convert an existing bike if you have a suitable donor bike - a steel hardtail mtb or hybrid would be ideal.

[LittleGreyCat]

I think that tends to be true for cheap 'e-bikes' , but you can buy good kits to convert an existing bike if you have a suitable donor bike - a steel hardtail mtb or hybrid would be ideal.

This is the issue that I am tracking.
At the moment it looks as though a conversion may well offer more of what I am wanting than an eBike from a manufacturer.
Certainly within a reasonable budget.

I have an old steel hardtail which I have had since new.
I also have a nearly refurbished old Dawes Galaxy which is an interesting alternative.

[Jdsk]

Have you got a price range?

Thanks

Jonathan

[LittleGreyCat]

[Noting in passing that it would be good to be able to thank/like the helpful posts on here without quoting them.]

[emleyman]

Have a look at the pedelecs.co.uk website. There's a lot of helpful members there to give advice on kit selection and fitting. They were very helpful when I bought my kit.

[LittleGreyCat]

Have you got a price range?

Thanks

Jonathan

I would like to spend under £1k if possible on a conversion, which seems to suit my needs so far.

I can go quite a bit higher for a manufactured eBikes if I have to.
I am getting the impression that I can't meet my current requirements under £2k, possibly considerably more.

I am also thinking that buying an ex demonstrator from Spa Cycles and fitting a front hub drive might be an interesting project.
Might even get a reduction through not needing a front wheel.
That could come in well under £2k!

[Jdsk]

Thanks

Jonathan

[PH]

To clarify, I am aiming for a bike which will still ride well with the power off.

Although it's the type I have least experience of, front wheel conversions are the most popular choice of the CTC types I ride with for the sort of use you're suggesting. Some of them will even come out on a flat ride on the same bike without the motor or battery.