Dangerous e-scooters?

Nearholmer
Posts: 3932
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Nearholmer »

[quotean e-scooter should beat the carbon emissions of walking hands down.][/quote]

Several sources seem to agree that the CO2 exhaled by a person amounts to somewhere between 700 and 900 grams/day. This seems to be based on a person at rest, and I cant quickly find a number for walking on the feet, let alone walking on the hands, which is really strenuous.
awavey
Posts: 300
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by awavey »

axel_knutt wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 4:10pm
What e-boost?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtrKLCDbPc
well Im guessing that individual wasnt a just in high school student, and whether you are rollerblading, cycling or scootering without a motor to help you, its down to your physical fitness & ability, which tends to limit you being able to maintain the same flat out speed forever.An e-scooter can do that, till the battery runs out.

plus alot of his momentum before impact is maintained by Marty McFly-ing a car...but yeah that kind of thing just replace it with a kid on an escooter and ask ok are we comfortable they will injure themselves in crashes like that and have to learn the hard way ?
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Dingdong »

A subsidy agreement for converting regular bikes to ebikes and a national network of approved technicians to do the job would transform not only ebiking but cycling in this country.

Most people just don't like the effort put in for regular cycling, and they are justifiably afraid of cycling on busy roads. Scooters will obviously take the pressure off road use if there's mass take up. I was in Paris recently and they seem to be everywhere. For short trips they are undeniably useful.

Every car journey removed from the road is a safety bonus for cyclists, let's not forget that!
AlanD
Posts: 1733
Joined: 27 Mar 2008, 1:29pm
Location: South Oxfordshire

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by AlanD »

Last Wednesday evening, my wife and I were driving through Bristol, on our way back from the Airport.
Because it was now dark and I was struggling to remember my way through the city, it came as quite a surprise when coming the other way (on the other side of the road), I saw two adults on e-scooters. No lights, black clothing, they barely registered visually.

Do these people want to get run over and killed? Do they have no concept of danger?

This made it more difficult for the rest of my journey. I had not expected this, so as well as having to look out for signs to the M4 and watch my positioning at unfamiliar junctions, I now also had to be on the lookout for ninja e-scooter persons. :shock:
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by toontra »

As seen today - an e-scooter doing 25+ mph along an "enclosed" cycle lane with floating parking. Bloody dangerous to themselves and anyone getting in the way. It's the speeds involved that massively increase the risk factor, certainly beyond what an average un-assisted cyclist would pose.
Airsporter1st
Posts: 784
Joined: 8 Oct 2016, 3:14pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Airsporter1st »

toontra wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 8:35pm As seen today - an e-scooter doing 25+ mph along an "enclosed" cycle lane with floating parking. Bloody dangerous to themselves and anyone getting in the way. It's the speeds involved that massively increase the risk factor, certainly beyond what an average un-assisted cyclist would pose.
What I find intriguing about posts (and threads) of this nature, is the ease with which you could substitute “cycle” for “e-bike”, up the estimated speed to suit and post it on a motorist’s forum.
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Dingdong »

Airsporter1st wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 9:05am
toontra wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 8:35pm As seen today - an e-scooter doing 25+ mph along an "enclosed" cycle lane with floating parking. Bloody dangerous to themselves and anyone getting in the way. It's the speeds involved that massively increase the risk factor, certainly beyond what an average un-assisted cyclist would pose.
What I find intriguing about posts (and threads) of this nature, is the ease with which you could substitute “cycle” for “e-bike”, up the estimated speed to suit and post it on a motorist’s forum.
Yes, that's quite eerie!
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Tangled Metal »

There was a comment upthread about escooters are part of the solution for urban transport in a net zero world. It got me wondering about electrically powered transportation being a net zero option. They consume electricity that's not guaranteed to come from carbon neutral sources so what do you do to make it net zero? Shouldn't we be calling it a solution for low carbon transportation?

Better still is walking and bicycling (not ebiking) surely? If you're replacing walking or normal cycling with escooters or ebikes then surely you're increasing carbon release. It only works if you're replacing car use. All escooter users I've known replaced walking or cycling with it. That's why I ask this.
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by pwa »

I see a lot of young people speeding around on footpaths on e-scooters, which looks dangerous and also has me wondering whether they are getting even less exercise now they don't have to walk or cycle as much.
rareposter
Posts: 1993
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by rareposter »

Tangled Metal wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 4:20pm There was a comment upthread about escooters are part of the solution for urban transport in a net zero world. It got me wondering about electrically powered transportation being a net zero option. They consume electricity that's not guaranteed to come from carbon neutral sources so what do you do to make it net zero? Shouldn't we be calling it a solution for low carbon transportation?

Better still is walking and bicycling (not ebiking) surely? If you're replacing walking or normal cycling with escooters or ebikes then surely you're increasing carbon release. It only works if you're replacing car use. All escooter users I've known replaced walking or cycling with it. That's why I ask this.
Depends where the modal shift is coming from.
If you can pop your little darling on an e-scooter and they can nip to school in 10 mins instead of being driven to the school gates in the SUV (yes, I'm generalising / stereotyping...!) then it's a net positive thing.

If they were going to walk and they're now using an e-scooter then it's obviously more of a carbon footprint (although not by a lot).

e-bikes are a bit more versatile - they are massively enabling and can replace a huge number of journeys currently made by car or van, usually much more efficiently and obviously an e-bike uses far fewer resources to build and ship than an e-vehicle. You can carry more than you can on an e-scooter, go further and they feel much more sturdy to ride.
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by toontra »

Airsporter1st wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 9:05am
toontra wrote: 9 Oct 2022, 8:35pm As seen today - an e-scooter doing 25+ mph along an "enclosed" cycle lane with floating parking. Bloody dangerous to themselves and anyone getting in the way. It's the speeds involved that massively increase the risk factor, certainly beyond what an average un-assisted cyclist would pose.
What I find intriguing about posts (and threads) of this nature, is the ease with which you could substitute “cycle” for “e-bike”, up the estimated speed to suit and post it on a motorist’s forum.
Don't know where you live. I'm in central London and I see very few un-assisted cyclists doing 25+ in a segregated cycle lane for any distance, certainly on the flat as my example was.

It's not the electrical assist I have a problem with, either scooters or e-bikes. It's the ones rigged - illegally - to exceed the manufacturer's limiter that pose an increased risk. Coincidentally (or maybe not) these are the same ones that are often ridden dangerously and irresponsibly.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Tangled Metal »

rareposter wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 7:58pm
Tangled Metal wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 4:20pm There was a comment upthread about escooters are part of the solution for urban transport in a net zero world. It got me wondering about electrically powered transportation being a net zero option. They consume electricity that's not guaranteed to come from carbon neutral sources so what do you do to make it net zero? Shouldn't we be calling it a solution for low carbon transportation?

Better still is walking and bicycling (not ebiking) surely? If you're replacing walking or normal cycling with escooters or ebikes then surely you're increasing carbon release. It only works if you're replacing car use. All escooter users I've known replaced walking or cycling with it. That's why I ask this.
Depends where the modal shift is coming from.
If you can pop your little darling on an e-scooter and they can nip to school in 10 mins instead of being driven to the school gates in the SUV (yes, I'm generalising / stereotyping...!) then it's a net positive thing.

If they were going to walk and they're now using an e-scooter then it's obviously more of a carbon footprint (although not by a lot).

e-bikes are a bit more versatile - they are massively enabling and can replace a huge number of journeys currently made by car or van, usually much more efficiently and obviously an e-bike uses far fewer resources to build and ship than an e-vehicle. You can carry more than you can on an e-scooter, go further and they feel much more sturdy to ride.
Is it kids using them or adults? Most users here are men going to work. Used to walk and cycle on normal bikes but now escootering. That's my point, it's not taking cars out of use round here but lower carbon commutes. Not the same everywhere but it's the case here.

One more issue apart from it not being a legal trial area is the fact that these escooters I see being used are leaving me for dust on a downhill I'm doing 20 plus mph perhaps 25 plus. The guy at work had one capable of 37mph and he regularly goes 30 plus on it. Laughs it off as being a bit scary! A guy I used to see was riding on pavements between cars and walls with pedestrians using it too. He never slows down. Nearly took me out when he cut a corner on junction into a mixed use path between two high walls. He wasn't looking where he was going but I took evasive action so we were but OK. It's not that the escooter is necessarily a good or bad thing. It's just that it's use needs to be right. To replace car journeys not pedestrian ones and must be used safely / responsibly.
awavey
Posts: 300
Joined: 25 Jul 2016, 12:04am

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by awavey »

pwa wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 6:07pm I see a lot of young people speeding around on footpaths on e-scooters, which looks dangerous and also has me wondering whether they are getting even less exercise now they don't have to walk or cycle as much.
I feel its building a reliance on non physical effort journeys which is going to be hard to break,its like someone said earlier theyre undeniably good for short journeys...well so is walking do we ultimately end up like the humans in Wall-E sitting in floating chairs to move about ? thats why I struggle to see them as a good thing the virtues of cycling even with an e-bike have never solely been about just being a car replacement, its the physical activity side which is good for physical and mental health.
SteveGray
Posts: 85
Joined: 20 Dec 2015, 8:53pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by SteveGray »

Two observations on the non hire e scooter users in Tyneside.

1) I have ONLY seen younger people on them and ALL acting unsafely. How many offences can you find at the same time ? One exampleI saw was a youth on an illegal e scooter, smoking cannabis with headphones on. Riding in daylight in a built up area. Chances of being caught by seemingly non existent police ? almost zero. Punishment if caught, almost zero.

2) As they are illegal anyway, would I legalise them ?. Well yes, with legal enforcement of construction and use regulations and safe use.

Don't even mention the epidemic of texting at the wheel. I think the detection rate by police must be say 1 in 1,000 here. Would anybody like to disagree ?

Perhaps a quote attributed to Demonax the Cynic is appropriate ...." Probley all laws are useless; for good men do not need laws at all and bad men are made no better by them"

My simplified view is that the HM Governments should stop writing laws on paper (more correctly vellum) UNLESS they are going to enforce them. Every time there is more law, without any reasonable enforcement, the whole process is devalued.

Rant over.

I have several legal e bikes and no car.
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by pwa »

The genie is out of the bottle on this one. E-scooters are out there and will continue to be out there, in the hands of all sorts of people, some safe and some not. We can't un-invent them and we can't put enough police out there to chase kids in e-scooters.
Post Reply