Dangerous e-scooters?

Mike Sales
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Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Mike Sales »

Interesting column in The Observer.
We may tut as e-scooters whizz by, but they aren’t the menace we should fear
Torsten Bell
Specifically, there was an 8.2% increase in accidents reported to the police in the average month after shared e-scooters were introduced.
Now you might conclude that this means we just need to ban scooters. But the research provides rather more useful lessons for policymakers. Traffic accidents particularly rose in cities with high car densities, and hardly at all in those well-adapted to cyclists – for example, because they have lots of bike lanes. E-scooters, and e-bikes, are important parts of the future of urban travel in a net zero world, so the real lesson is that we need to sort out our infrastructure to match that reality. In the meantime, it’d be great if their riders could stop shooting past me. It’s dangerous for me and my self esteem.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... hould-fear
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Jdsk
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks for posting that.

The original paper:
"Do shared e-scooter services cause traffic accidents? Evidence from six European countries"
Cloud, Heß and Kasinger (2022)
https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2209.06870

Jonathan
jois
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by jois »

Mike Sales wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 12:07pm Interesting column in The Observer.
We may tut as e-scooters whizz by, but they aren’t the menace we should fear
Torsten Bell
Specifically, there was an 8.2% increase in accidents reported to the police in the average month after shared e-scooters were introduced.
Now you might conclude that this means we just need to ban scooters. But the research provides rather more useful lessons for policymakers. Traffic accidents particularly rose in cities with high car densities, and hardly at all in those well-adapted to cyclists – for example, because they have lots of bike lanes. E-scooters, and e-bikes, are important parts of the future of urban travel in a net zero world, so the real lesson is that we need to sort out our infrastructure to match that reality. In the meantime, it’d be great if their riders could stop shooting past me. It’s dangerous for me and my self esteem.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... hould-fear
The problem with that is we have baned escooters, just no one it seems takes any notice.

The legal schemes, certainly the one round here promised that the scooter were geo locked and wouldn't work on pavements, I had my doubt at the time that the sat nav was that accurate and I seem to be correct.

There are dozens of them scattered around the city that get very little use, an odd one is seen every now and then always on the pavement. Plus the local youths who shouldn't be able to hire one are to be seen wheeling them round the shopping precinct, which is to be honest is a fairly impressive skill, just not very safe for every one else and almost certainly outside of the insurance cover required by law
Nearholmer
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Nearholmer »

E-scooters, and e-bikes, are important parts of the future of urban travel in a net zero world, so the real lesson is that we need to sort out our infrastructure to match that reality
That’s the key phrase.

Here, MK, where we have vast amounts of shared-use paths, e-scooters are both popular and reasonably inoffensive in use, even the privately-owned ones. The only two issues are random dumping of hire scooters, so that they become a hazard to cyclists and other scooter users, and a very small number of “souped up” scooters and bikes.
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simonineaston
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by simonineaston »

However, there is an element to the emergence that has risk. We see that e-scooters/cycles have begun to be adopted by sections of the pop. that have limited access to more established transport solutions. In partic. they've begun to be used by folks with limited incomes, eg students, youngsters, zero-hours contractors like food delivery cyclists. All good and fine so far.
So, there's developed a busy sub-culture of young men using poorly maintained ebikes with large batteries, bound all round with duct tape (presumably to stop the battery getting knicked) to deliver take-away to their better-off and lazier contemporaries, here in Bristol. One such bike was reportedly the cause of a fire in local flats in which one person died recently.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
jois
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by jois »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:09pm However, there is an element to the emergence that has risk. We see that e-scooters/cycles have begun to be adopted by sections of the pop. that have limited access to more established transport solutions. In partic. they've begun to be used by folks with limited incomes, eg students, youngsters, zero-hours contractors like food delivery cyclists. All good and fine so far.
So, there's developed a busy sub-culture of young men using poorly maintained ebikes with large batteries, bound all round with duct tape (presumably to stop the battery getting knicked) to deliver take-away to their better-off and lazier contemporaries, here in Bristol. One such bike was reportedly the cause of a fire in local flats in which one person died recently.
Agree , the moment that they are increasing motorised road traffic rather than decreasing it, then much of their fabled climate change and congestion benifits evaporate
awavey
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by awavey »

the issue for me will always be how savvy & safe the e-scooterists are that are operating them, as the ones I see most often and we are definitely not in a trial area, are used by kids barely of high school age, who dont display any road sense, or seem to understand how quickly they can get into problems when travelling around at speeds none of them are used to or would ever reach without that e-boost, and that it is going to hurt alot when you hit solid things.

I saw two on the pavement the other week racing each other going at a fair speed as a car was reversing out of a drive, now the driver was being as safe and cautious as they could but obviously not expecting necessarily to have two kids on scooters racing each other on the pavement to deal with, fortunately the driver did spot them at last second and hits their brakes, so no collision occurred. But a less cautious driver, or had they been a couple of seconds earlier in reversing out, and at least one if not both kids were going square into the side of a car, because they didnt seem to have any inkling that was a risk with them using their scooters like that on the pavement, Im not sure its even a thing they will learn until one of them does hurt themselves as they carried on in the same manner

and thats the thing for me, I dont want kids to have to learn the lesson that actually cars can kill them on the road or on pavements through darwinism.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:09pm However, there is an element to the emergence that has risk. We see that e-scooters/cycles have begun to be adopted by sections of the pop. that have limited access to more established transport solutions. In partic. they've begun to be used by folks with limited incomes, eg students, youngsters, zero-hours contractors like food delivery cyclists. All good and fine so far.
So, there's developed a busy sub-culture of young men using poorly maintained ebikes with large batteries, bound all round with duct tape (presumably to stop the battery getting knicked) to deliver take-away to their better-off and lazier contemporaries, here in Bristol. One such bike was reportedly the cause of a fire in local flats in which one person died recently.
I was thinking about that very incident this morning. It was a homemade e-bike which started the fire, according to the fire brigade, presumably while charging. To my mind, this says we should make it easier (basically cheaper) to get a legal, approved and properly made – therefore safe* – e-bike. They are here, the demand is here and shows no signs of diminishing.

How do we make them cheaper? I don't know. Perhaps by removing VAT, perhaps with a subsidy scheme. Is any of this likely to happen? No. In fact, I'd say we are going to see more and more homemade e-bikes and fires.

*Electrically safe. They are already reasonably traffic safe, particularly compared to cars.
simonhill
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by simonhill »

Singapore has introduced tests for ebikes and escooters. Of course Singapore will probably enforce it. In the UK the Police won't bother until someone gets badly hurt then they mysteriously find the resources to flood the area with officers.

https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltagov/e ... iders.html

Quote:

"From 1 January 2022, power-assisted bicycle (PAB) and e-scooter riders must pass a mandatory online theory test before they are able to ride on cycling paths and roads (applicable to PABs only). This will improve awareness of active mobility rules, code of conduct and safe riding practices, in support of a safe and sustainable active mobility landscape. There are separate tests for users of these two types of motorised devices and they will be available on Singapore Polytechnic’s (SP) Professional & Adult Continuing Education (PACE) Academy"
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simonineaston
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by simonineaston »

When my nano Brompton's first battery came towards the end of its life (now in its 6th year, it's still struggling on...), I explored the notion of sundry diy options and concluded, with the help of posters on this very forum! that I had neither the kit nor the experience necessary to start poking around in energy-rich environments. But I'm relatively well off and can afford a new battery once every 6 years...
I can see why folks on limited incomes are tempted to cut corners. T'was ever thus, hence things like MOT tests.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
axel_knutt
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by axel_knutt »

I'm still waiting for the research to find out whether most scooterers are ex-drivers or ex-pedestrians.
jois wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:23pmthe moment that they are increasing motorised road traffic rather than decreasing it, then much of their fabled climate change and congestion benifits evaporate
Unless you're incredibly picky what you eat, an e-scooter should beat the carbon emissions of walking hands down.
awavey wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:47pmthey can get into problems when travelling around at speeds none of them are used to or would ever reach without that e-boost, and that it is going to hurt alot when you hit solid things.
What e-boost?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtrKLCDbPc
Bmblbzzz wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:55pmI'd say we are going to see more and more homemade e-bikes and fires.
I think there will be a lot more battery fires in general until people get used to treating them like a tank full of petrol instead of an innocuous AAA that's not going to do anything more harmful than leak a bit.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

They're not really like a tank of petrol. At least they don't have to be, no more so than your laptop's battery. But we're going to see more such fires because we're going to see more people trying to make a living by 'rooing and similar, and at that level it's not surprising people can't afford a properly made e-bike with decent battery management. And before people say "They should be pedalling", how do you think they got the bikes they've converted?
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simonineaston
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by simonineaston »

Just as bad - arguably worse in that generally speaking petrol behaves itself unless introduced to a naked flame or spark...
check out these... https://youtu.be/8nz5ijXcckI
ps I've promptly removed my Bosch battery / charger combination from my bedroom to the hallway!!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
yakdiver
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by yakdiver »

I know you all hate them, but I would still love one like this, I have road, MTB, e-trike, and a escooter would complete the collection :D
https://youtu.be/XeyETg3Cd3E
jois
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Re: Dangerous e-scooters?

Post by jois »

axel_knutt wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 4:10pm I'm still waiting for the research to find out whether most scooterers are ex-drivers or ex-pedestrians.
jois wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:23pmthe moment that they are increasing motorised road traffic rather than decreasing it, then much of their fabled climate change and congestion benifits evaporate
Unless you're incredibly picky what you eat, an e-scooter should beat the carbon emissions of walking hands down.
awavey wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:47pmthey can get into problems when travelling around at speeds none of them are used to or would ever reach without that e-boost, and that it is going to hurt alot when you hit solid things.
What e-boost?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtrKLCDbPc
Bmblbzzz wrote: 2 Oct 2022, 1:55pmI'd say we are going to see more and more homemade e-bikes and fires.
I think there will be a lot more battery fires in general until people get used to treating them like a tank full of petrol instead of an innocuous AAA that's not going to do anything more harmful than leak a bit.
Do you think so ? , I'm not that sure that a fit young man will produce more co2 than an escooter. Particularly as he also has to breath whilst on the escooter and he is hardly likely to get much in the way of elevated breathing on a Stoll.

But I could be wrong do you have any figures to support this " hands down " claim ?
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