Is protein bonking a thing?

[Galactic]

Had a new experience the other week, and wondered whether anyone else was familiar with the situation:

TL;DR: have you ever bonked from lack of protein as opposed to not enough carbs?

I unexpectedly bonked at the end of a short trip (30km, no luggage to speak of) despite having picnicked about an hour before (raw carrots, heavy rye bread sandwiches - nothing unusual for me). No problem, recognised the signs of an impending bonk and stopped to bung in a couple of mouthfuls of fruit and nut mix, which usually gets me back in the saddle until I can sort something more substantial.

But this time it didn't. I waited the statutory 10 mins or so, and not seeing a massive improvement, took some more fruit and nut. I managed to get back in the saddle, but was still a little disorientated and weak, and 5km later was actually shaking with exhaustion. Happened to have a 200g bar of smoked tofu in my bag (don't ask), and wolfed half down, which put me back on my feet pretty speedily, altho I was up and down emotionally for an hour after that.

I've never bonked that badly before.

Thinking about it later (once I was sounding coherent to myself again), I wondered whether protein was the culprit. I realised I had eaten less protein than usual that morning and midday, most of it had been in the rye bread. I don't remember much about nutrition, but I do remember you need to complement protein from cereals with other kinds of protein, eg from beans and pulses, and wondered whether this might have been the problem in this case.

Thinking of previous bonking occasions, they usually seem to happen the morning or day after a big carb-heavy tea (eg a pasta dish) without heavy sources of protein. Looking at the packaging, the fruit and nut mix had about 5g of protein per 100g, while the half bar of tofu I ate had over 20g of protein in it.

Anyway, after that big long description, I was wondering whether any of yous think protein (as opposed to carbohydrate) bonking is a thing? Anyone have any experience of this?

PS is there another word for bonking? Saying it always makes me want to giggle like a teenager.

[jois]

Had a new experience the other week, and wondered whether anyone else was familiar with the situation:

TL;DR: have you ever bonked from lack of protein as opposed to not enough carbs?

I unexpectedly bonked at the end of a short trip (30km, no luggage to speak of) despite having picnicked about an hour before (raw carrots, heavy rye bread sandwiches - nothing unusual for me). No problem, recognised the signs of an impending bonk and stopped to bung in a couple of mouthfuls of fruit and nut mix, which usually gets me back in the saddle until I can sort something more substantial.

But this time it didn't. I waited the statutory 10 mins or so, and not seeing a massive improvement, took some more fruit and nut. I managed to get back in the saddle, but was still a little disorientated and weak, and 5km later was actually shaking with exhaustion. Happened to have a 200g bar of smoked tofu in my bag (don't ask), and wolfed half down, which put me back on my feet pretty speedily, altho I was up and down emotionally for an hour after that.

I've never bonked that badly before.

Thinking about it later (once I was sounding coherent to myself again), I wondered whether protein was the culprit. I realised I had eaten less protein than usual that morning and midday, most of it had been in the rye bread. I don't remember much about nutrition, but I do remember you need to complement protein from cereals with other kinds of protein, eg from beans and pulses, and wondered whether this might have been the problem in this case.

Thinking of previous bonking occasions, they usually seem to happen the morning or day after a big carb-heavy tea (eg a pasta dish) without heavy sources of protein. Looking at the packaging, the fruit and nut mix had about 5g of protein per 100g, while the half bar of tofu I ate had over 20g of protein in it.

Anyway, after that big long description, I was wondering whether any of yous think protein (as opposed to carbohydrate) bonking is a thing? Anyone have any experience of this?

PS is there another word for bonking? Saying it always makes me want to giggle like a teenager.

No, not as I understand biology, if you run low on carbs your body starts to burn protein, canabilising muscle to do so, protein in your blood is a fuel source, if you replenish the carbs that should stop, the bonking comes when your body diverts the glucose intended for your brain to the muscles and you loose brain function that has nothing to do with protein,It takes a while to get everything back as it should be

Hitting the wall or gassing refere to much the same thing in other sports

[ed.lazda]

If your body is desperate it can turn protein into glucose, so a protein meal can theoretically help recovery from a glucose-deficiency bonk. But the initial bonk isn't caused by protein deficiency.

[Audax67]

In less-Americanized days bonking was called "getting the knock". My dad used to carry a bar of Fry's Chocolate Cream.

[Cugel]

Had a new experience the other week, and wondered whether anyone else was familiar with the situation:

TL;DR: have you ever bonked from lack of protein as opposed to not enough carbs?

I unexpectedly bonked at the end of a short trip (30km, no luggage to speak of) despite having picnicked about an hour before (raw carrots, heavy rye bread sandwiches - nothing unusual for me). No problem, recognised the signs of an impending bonk and stopped to bung in a couple of mouthfuls of fruit and nut mix, which usually gets me back in the saddle until I can sort something more substantial.

But this time it didn't. I waited the statutory 10 mins or so, and not seeing a massive improvement, took some more fruit and nut. I managed to get back in the saddle, but was still a little disorientated and weak, and 5km later was actually shaking with exhaustion. Happened to have a 200g bar of smoked tofu in my bag (don't ask), and wolfed half down, which put me back on my feet pretty speedily, altho I was up and down emotionally for an hour after that.

I've never bonked that badly before.

Thinking about it later (once I was sounding coherent to myself again), I wondered whether protein was the culprit. I realised I had eaten less protein than usual that morning and midday, most of it had been in the rye bread. I don't remember much about nutrition, but I do remember you need to complement protein from cereals with other kinds of protein, eg from beans and pulses, and wondered whether this might have been the problem in this case.

Thinking of previous bonking occasions, they usually seem to happen the morning or day after a big carb-heavy tea (eg a pasta dish) without heavy sources of protein. Looking at the packaging, the fruit and nut mix had about 5g of protein per 100g, while the half bar of tofu I ate had over 20g of protein in it.

Anyway, after that big long description, I was wondering whether any of yous think protein (as opposed to carbohydrate) bonking is a thing? Anyone have any experience of this?

PS is there another word for bonking? Saying it always makes me want to giggle like a teenager.

Not to be alarmist but ....

Some seven or eight years ago (lost count now) I developed Non-Hodgkin's large B cell lymphoma. I was lucky enough to get diagnosed and treated before it got into my brain/spine, so despite being in stage 4 the treatment was very effective.

The thing about many lymphomas is that they sneak up on you with few, if any, symptoms until you're well into stage 4. However, looking back on the year before I was diagnosed, I realised that I had had two symptoms which seemed so minor that I ignored them. One was gradually increasing short periods of tachycardia and the other was gradually increasing feelings of what I'd describe as a temporary bonk - that feeling of powerlessness, with various bodily feelings you can sum up as feeling very feak & weeble.

The thing with this bonk-like symptom was that it soon passed. Initially I only got it hammering up hills on the bike and it lasted for just a few minutes before disappearing completely, even for another hour of vigorous thrusting at the pedals. Six months later and I got it seemingly at random when doing exercise at any significant level; and it lasted for up to 20 minutes before disappearing as mysteriously as it appeared. Eating something made no difference. I knew, anyway, that I wasn't short of grub since I typically eat before going out on the bike.

********
Of course, such symptoms can probably be caused by a hundred bodily mechanisms so don't panic! On the other hand, if this is a new phenomenon, why not go and see if the quack can offer any sort of blood test, ultrasound scan or other procedure looking for the symptoms of an impending rot?

Once more, sorry to sound alarmist.

Cugel

[Dingdong]

I think it sounds like a load of old tosh. As long as you are stoked up on carbohydrates I find in can ride till the sun goes down, generally I find the brain goes first.

[Galactic]

Thanks for the replies so far - seems no one else has associated protein with bonking (hitting the wall, getting the knock, gassing etc). I suppose one explanation is that I was bonking harder than I ever had done before, hence needed more sustenance than I realised.

Not to be alarmist but ....

Thanks for the warning, Cugel. One thing I really appreciate about these forums is the candid relating of personal experience. I'm not getting the tachycardia you describe, but your story is a good reminder for me to keep an eye on when/how often/how long I bonk and see if there's any patterns or other symptoms (altho the bonking after big carbs intake has been happening for about 20 years).

[Dingdong]

The secret to not bonking on distance rides is to be fuelling yourself with carbs every hour or so. My best friend was the British 24hr champion back in the day, his secret was sugary drinks at regular intervals, and an actual bag of sugar in his back pocket which he would dip into every 15 minutes.

Worked well for him! It's all carbs, carbs, carbs. That and a good cadence!

[Cugel]

The secret to not bonking on distance rides is to be fuelling yourself with carbs every hour or so. My best friend was the British 24hr champion back in the day, his secret was sugary drinks at regular intervals, and an actual bag of sugar in his back pocket which he would dip into every 15 minutes.

Worked well for him! It's all carbs, carbs, carbs. That and a good cadence!

For some reason best not elaborated just now, I feel your "bag of sugar" advice may not be the best advice in this instance (or any other).

Cugel, wary of the white death, both visible and invisible varieties.

[Dingdong]

The secret to not bonking on distance rides is to be fuelling yourself with carbs every hour or so. My best friend was the British 24hr champion back in the day, his secret was sugary drinks at regular intervals, and an actual bag of sugar in his back pocket which he would dip into every 15 minutes.

Worked well for him! It's all carbs, carbs, carbs. That and a good cadence!

For some reason best not elaborated just now, I feel your "bag of sugar" advice may not be the best advice in this instance (or any other).

Cugel, wary of the white death, both visible and invisible varieties.

Getting fuelled up before, during and after is what really makes the difference. Rice and pasta really works for me. I find if I pay attention to my nutrition the few days before a big ride, and especially during, I can realistically ride all day, I've done 12hrs previously, with only a few essential stops for food and 'bathroom breaks'

[foxyrider]

The secret to not bonking on distance rides is to be fuelling yourself with carbs every hour or so. My best friend was the British 24hr champion back in the day, his secret was sugary drinks at regular intervals, and an actual bag of sugar in his back pocket which he would dip into every 15 minutes.

Worked well for him! It's all carbs, carbs, carbs. That and a good cadence!

For some reason best not elaborated just now, I feel your "bag of sugar" advice may not be the best advice in this instance (or any other).

Cugel, wary of the white death, both visible and invisible varieties.

maybe a bag of sugar isn't ideal but the boosting effect of gummi bears & jelly babies is well known

[Andy Stow]

Another kind of "bonk" sensation that is real is electrolyte depletion / hyponatremia (or possibly hypokalemia.) Did the tofu have significant electrolytes?

[Galactic]

Another kind of "bonk" sensation that is real is electrolyte depletion / hyponatremia (or possibly hypokalemia.) Did the tofu have significant electrolytes?

Now that's an interesting thought. Not exactly sure what 'electrolytes' are in this context, but the tofu was smoked and had a reasonable amount of calcium in (usually calcium chloride, but I don't have the packaging anymore to check), and some (but not a huge amount) of potassium. These things usually have a fair bit of salt (NaCl) in them, too.

[PH]

I'm not an expert, however I find it hard to imagine any sort of bonking on a 30km ride, how are you riding? If you're pushing so hard that your glycogen stores are quickly depleted, how long did the ride go on for? Will it even be possible to replenish in that timescale? The exception might be on a long tough climb, otherwise I suspect whatever it was that caused you to feel that way was something else.

[Galactic]

I find it hard to imagine any sort of bonking on a 30km ride, how are you riding?

Well that's the interesting thing - it was an easy ride at an easy pace, not even any particularly steep or long hills. And that after a week's easy touring (usually 60 to 90km every day, but not pushing myself to exhaustion or anything drastic). I doubt any reserves will have been seriously depleted by the tour, and if anything, my legs should have been in better than average condition.