People are right to trespass in fight for right to roam in England, says Green MP

[Nearholmer]

One consideration for landowners might be that cyclists and walkers would prefer to keep to a decent path, rather than have to make their own routes. This would probably suit the landowners too.

That’s my feeling too, but I really would like to know about bridleways in Scotland.

The thing to bear in mind is that land-use patterns vary. A whopping-great open space with no field boundaries, a grouse moor maybe, is one thing, but a typical lowland English scene with (even these days) a lot of hedges and fences is another. Bridleways with decent gates, and footpaths with decent stiles are a boon in “close” country, otherwise you’re stuck using field gates onto lanes, and no routes between the land of different owners. Where I grew up in The Weald, and in North Devon, the fields are tiny and would effectively be impassable without bridleways.

[pwa]

Where there is very widespread RTR, Scotland for instance, are there also bridleways?

I ask, because, as I said way above, a universal RTR would be a negative step in terms of practical cyclability in the countryside if it came along with the disappearance of landowners’ obligations around bridleways (and, similar considerations apply to footpath obligations).

How is that working out in Scotland?

One consideration for landowners might be that cyclists and walkers would prefer to keep to a decent path, rather than have to make their own routes. This would probably suit the landowners too.

I'd not go up to Scotland to do walking from a fixed base because I like to have a map that shows clearly where I can expect to be able to walk. And I have spent frustrating holidays in Ireland, where the message in the countryside is usually "Keep Out". I think what we have here, when it is in good order, works pretty well. But more access would be good.

[Paulatic]

Where there is very widespread RTR, Scotland for instance, are there also bridleways?

I ask, because, as I said way above, a universal RTR would be a negative step in terms of practical cyclability in the countryside if it came along with the disappearance of landowners’ obligations around bridleways (and, similar considerations apply to footpath obligations).

We have, in Scotland, Core Paths and IMO the beauty of these is the landowner has to keep access. Recently a track I walk the farmer was feeding cattle close to a gate. As you can imagine the slurry quickly came above boot height and the gate also became impossible to open. The slurry was at the third rung. I mentioned it to the farmer and it fell on deaf ears. I gave him a month before then contacting the LA with pictures. A week later it was all cleaned up and back to normal.
I walk across the same farmers fields using the RTR knowing where all the gates are I’ve quite a network. If one of those gates is blocked I change my route I don’t complain.

[Nearholmer]

So, a “core path” has similar status to a bridleway?

Are they identified on OS or OSM? I had a look, but couldn’t pick anything out.

[Jdsk]

Core Paths:
https://www.ramblers.org.uk/policy/scot ... paths.aspx

Cycling on core paths:
https://scotways.com/ken/where-can-i-cycle/

Mapping of core paths:
https://www.ramblers.org.uk/policy/scot ... paths.aspx
https://www.spatialdata.gov.scot/geonet ... 7ff3af1a27

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

Thanks.

[Ron]

That’s my feeling too, but I really would like to know about bridleways in Scotland.

There are none.

[ChrisButch]

That’s my feeling too, but I really would like to know about bridleways in Scotland.

There are none.

The point being that the history of the law of rights of way in Scotland is very different from that in England, and was so long before the recent (2000/2003) legislative changes in both countries. Scotland did not previously have the formal statutory distinctions of different classes of RoW (footpath, bridleway etc), although the fact that a particular RoW had historically been used by a particular category of user did carry some weight in common law.

[Nigel]

That’s my feeling too, but I really would like to know about bridleways in Scotland.

There are none.

If you're allowed to walk somewhere in Scotland, you can use a bike, or horse, or canoe, or ski. Whether a bike/canoe/horse/ski is sensible will vary with the terrain and weather

There is the word "responsible" in "right to responsible access". To my mind, that means not riding a bike where it will cut through ground, create erosion problems, etc...

So, a “core path” has similar status to a bridleway?

Are they identified on OS or OSM? I had a look, but couldn’t pick anything out.

Scottish mapping doesn't show the green lines/dots you get in England & Wales. If there's a track/path on the map, it represents a track on the ground. Combine that with the responsible access legislation and, generally, you can go on that track/path. You're also allowed to go around a field's margins (but not through a crop).

SNH keep a set of corepath records, its available as a zoom/click map:
https://www.nature.scot/enjoying-outdoo ... h-networks


As someone who has lived in England and Scotland, I find the Scottish arrangements much simpler on uplands and in large forest plantations - just pick your route and go, there is no question of "is this the bridleway/footpath green line". Arable areas can be slightly more work, can't just follow the green dots, but have to look for paths/routes.


One thing I have used when there isn't a path on a map, but I expect there's a route, is to look at the aerial photography on Google/Bing/etc. With that I can often identify a clear farm track going where I'd like to travel.


- Nigel

[pwa]

One thing I have used when there isn't a path on a map, but I expect there's a route, is to look at the aerial photography on Google/Bing/etc. With that I can often identify a clear farm track going where I'd like to travel.


- Nigel

So are farmers forbidden to put locks on gates? They do that around here to help discourage people letting cattle and sheep out, or stealing them. Or stealing farm machinery. And if they can put locks on gates, you can't be sure which gates will be locked until you get to them, can you? one farm near here (in Wales) has a large piece of farm machinery parked against the inside of a gate to make it hard for night raiders to get into the yard and the barns beyond, where other valuable kit is stored. So that gate, and the tracks beyond (no PROWs) would be inaccessible if this were in Scotland. Would that be allowed?

[Mike Sales]

One thing I have used when there isn't a path on a map, but I expect there's a route, is to look at the aerial photography on Google/Bing/etc. With that I can often identify a clear farm track going where I'd like to travel.


- Nigel

So are farmers forbidden to put locks on gates? They do that around here to help discourage people letting cattle and sheep out, or stealing them. Or stealing farm machinery. And if they can put locks on gates, you can't be sure which gates will be locked until you get to them, can you? one farm near here (in Wales) has a large piece of farm machinery parked against the inside of a gate to make it hard for night raiders to get into the yard and the barns beyond, where other valuable kit is stored. So that gate, and the tracks beyond (no PROWs) would be inaccessible if this were in Scotland. Would that be allowed?

I've usually found a stile in such places.
Nothing wrong with a gate vault either.

[Nearholmer]

I wonder why OS don’t highlight the “ core paths” somehow so that you know that there will be a reasonably unobstructed route without locked gates every “five minutes”, or those huge stiles over deer fences that I’ve seen pictures of.

The situation in areas with enclosed fields sounds as if it might actually present more difficulty than in England.

Can I afford a holiday in Scotland next year to satisfy my curiosity? Hmmm …….

[mattsccm]

Usual hypocritical garbage.
"If its as big as my garden it can be private, if it's bigger then it should be public. "
Usual selfish twaddle. I'll back the idea when the bits we currently have have been used up by each and every one of us. Bit like the idea of cycling on footpaths.
Have the proponents used up all the other RoW in the country? Do they also agree to access by other user groups? Nope. Just selfish and greedy.

[mattsccm]

I fail to see the problem if something is gated. Climb it. Ah, it's too hard on a bike. Well go somewhere easier. Why do we always want the easy way and expect the world to provide it?

[Nigel]

One thing I have used when there isn't a path on a map, but I expect there's a route, is to look at the aerial photography on Google/Bing/etc. With that I can often identify a clear farm track going where I'd like to travel.


- Nigel

So are farmers forbidden to put locks on gates? ....

(In Scotland) They are not meant to lock gates without providing a reasonable access alternative, such as a pedestrian gate.
I have encountered the odd locked gate which will cause problems. Sometimes accidentally (chain put round both vehicle and pedestrian gate, when meant to only lock the vehicle gate), sometimes deliberate (big lock and no alternative).

The local authority can have any locks (or any other obstructions to reasonable access) removed, and charge the land owner the cost of doing so. So, there is legislative power, and a means to recover costs.


In my time living in England I came across locked gates on ROW, so the existence of green dots on an OS map doesn't mean there won't be an obstruction.


- Nigel