People are right to trespass in fight for right to roam in England, says Green MP

[Paulatic]

[. But if it were Scotland, with theoretically more free access, would we still have the stiles and pedestrian kissing gates?

Certainly not, only if you were on a core path.
It sounds as if you live in an area with a good supply of paths. Any RTR doesn’t enable an increase of paths. It simply removes the guilt of walking somewhere you wonder if you should be there. That’s a widespread feeling amongst those in E&W I was born and reared in England. The Scots don’t have that hang up and if you’re following the Countryside Access Code then you’ve 'no worries'.

[Steve X]

I also ask how people come into possession of 40,000 acres,

According to this source [https://abcfinance.co.uk/blog/who-owns-the-uk/] there are only five individuals, as opposed to corporations, charities, governments depts, etc, who do own over 40k acres of the UK. That three out of this five are dukes suggests inheritance is the most common method. The remaining two are Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum (prime minister of the UAE) and Ander Povlson (Danish businessman, who allows the public access to his Scottish estates).

5 out of the top 11 are Aristocracy/ Royalty. Would I be correct in thinking then, that all this land ownership at root, goes back to 1066 when William conquered England (?) and effectively became the owner of every square inch, and from that point started dishing it out to his chums. Seems a bit rum to me, that some person can tell me that I cannot walk across a piece of land, that they were given by a bloke who got it 1000 years ago. Whats that all about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mattheus]

Seems a bit rum to me, that some person can tell me that I cannot walk across a piece of land, that they were given by a bloke who got it 1000 years ago. Whats that all about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair, if they are really that old, they deserve a little respect. Young man!

[Jdsk]

"Labour government would pass right to roam act and reverse Dartmoor ban":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rtmoor-ban

Jonathan

[WillCycle]

There is no sensible reason why England and Wales cannot copy Scotland's Right To Roam laws. Many people think in Scotland you have the right to go anywhere - that's not the reality, and their system has checks and balances in place. As a result, you won't get people trespassing in your garden (unless your "garden" is several hundred hectares!)

I agree entirely with what Caroline Lucas said. Any objections about litter, etc is a distraction. People who couldn't care less about the land will still litter, and will still trespass. The only people really impacted by the ridiculous laws in England & Wales, preventing access to most of the countryside, are people who behave responsibly.

[Psamathe]

At last something sensible from Labour (or at least no longer trying to find every fence to sit on)

Labour vows to introduce Scottish-style right to roam law in England
...
The Labour party has pledged to introduce a Scottish-style right to roam law in England if it wins the next general election, with access to green space enshrined in law.

The shadow environment minister, Alex Sobel, made the announcement during a debate secured by the Green MP Caroline Lucas, who has been campaigning for wider access to the countryside.
...

Ian

[pwa]

If that keeps our existing Rights of Way and just adds other rights on top, great. Because our PROWs come with a requirement that stiles and gates and bridges be present where they need to be, and they also often have helpful waymarking. If what happens is that we still have PROWs, but can also utilise other green space where we find it accessible, we should lose nothing and possibly gain something.

The Scottish example doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I will be visiting Culzean Castle in a few weeks time and the access situation there is far from clear. In theory there is a coastal path that goes through the site. But there are also reported to be stroppy National Trust employees demanding that folk pay the not inconsiderable entrance fee to enter the grounds. You can't follow the coast path without entering the grounds. In Wales I would consult my OS map and study the PROWs to clarify my rights. There will be no PROWs at Culzean because it is in Scotland.

[Paulatic]

If that keeps our existing Rights of Way and just adds other rights on top, great. Because our PROWs come with a requirement that stiles and gates and bridges be present where they need to be, and they also often have helpful waymarking. If what happens is that we still have PROWs, but can also utilise other green space where we find it accessible, we should lose nothing and possibly gain something.

The Scottish example doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I will be visiting Culzean Castle in a few weeks time and the access situation there is far from clear. In theory there is a coastal path that goes through the site. But there are also reported to be stroppy National Trust employees demanding that folk pay the not inconsiderable entrance fee to enter the grounds. You can't follow the coast path without entering the grounds. In Wales I would consult my OS map and study the PROWs to clarify my rights. There will be no PROWs at Culzean because it is in Scotland.

Simple really, it’s a core path and if you are on the core path just tell them politely to FO.
https://south-ayrshire.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 07edb4afa4

You need to use the layers menu and choose core paths.

[pwa]

If that keeps our existing Rights of Way and just adds other rights on top, great. Because our PROWs come with a requirement that stiles and gates and bridges be present where they need to be, and they also often have helpful waymarking. If what happens is that we still have PROWs, but can also utilise other green space where we find it accessible, we should lose nothing and possibly gain something.

The Scottish example doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I will be visiting Culzean Castle in a few weeks time and the access situation there is far from clear. In theory there is a coastal path that goes through the site. But there are also reported to be stroppy National Trust employees demanding that folk pay the not inconsiderable entrance fee to enter the grounds. You can't follow the coast path without entering the grounds. In Wales I would consult my OS map and study the PROWs to clarify my rights. There will be no PROWs at Culzean because it is in Scotland.

Simple really, it’s a core path and if you are on the core path just tell them politely to FO.
https://south-ayrshire.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 07edb4afa4

You need to use the layers menu and choose core paths.

Thanks for that. We will be staying at the caravan park, so whether we have to go through the turnstiles to get to the beach will be a voyage of discovery. It could be a £30+ dog walk Though my OS app shows me others have walked in on tracks other than by the front gate, so it will be interesting. It could even be fun.

[nosmarbaj]

I will be visiting Culzean Castle in a few weeks time and the access situation there is far from clear. In theory there is a coastal path that goes through the site. But there are also reported to be stroppy National Trust employees demanding that folk pay the not inconsiderable entrance fee to enter the grounds.

Simple really, it’s a core path and if you are on the core path just tell them politely to FO.
https://south-ayrshire.maps.arcgis.com/ ... 07edb4afa4

You need to use the layers menu and choose core paths.

Thanks for that. We will be staying at the caravan park, so whether we have to go through the turnstiles to get to the beach will be a voyage of discovery. It could be a £30+ dog walk Though my OS app shows me others have walked in on tracks other than by the front gate, so it will be interesting. It could even be fun.

I have visited Culzean many times, though not in the past 5 years or so. The quickest route from the camp/caravan site to the coastal path is probably through the official entry where you might have to pay (unless there's a concession for users of the campsite), but as you surmise there will be plenty of routes enabling you to bypass that, and once in, you're unlikely to meet a NTS emplyee, far less be questioned by one. Away from the formal gardens the grounds are pretty rough semi-natural woodland with no fences etc that I can recall.
As Paulatic has said, in Scotland if you're somewhere you have accessed without difficulty and are being sensible, you don't need to worry about whether you have a right to be there.
ETA (off topic) - it's worth paying once, to tour the castle itself, if you're even remotely intersted in architecture.

[pwa]

I have visited Culzean many times, though not in the past 5 years or so. The quickest route from the camp/caravan site to the coastal path is probably through the official entry where you might have to pay (unless there's a concession for users of the campsite), but as you surmise there will be plenty of routes enabling you to bypass that, and once in, you're unlikely to meet a NTS emplyee, far less be questioned by one. Away from the formal gardens the grounds are pretty rough semi-natural woodland with no fences etc that I can recall.
As Paulatic has said, in Scotland if you're somewhere you have accessed without difficulty and are being sensible, you don't need to worry about whether you have a right to be there.
ETA (off topic) - it's worth paying once, to tour the castle itself, if you're even remotely intersted in architecture.

Thanks. Yes, our first line of attack will be to ask whoever is on reception at the caravan site what they advise. Our second approach will be to try to get in from the northern edge, bypassing the main gates and the charge, which if memory serves is getting on for £40 for the two of us. And we only want to do a dog walk. I like architecture, but not Robert Adam, so the house is of no real interest. But if necessary we will pay for our walk in the woods. I don't mind paying a bit to help maintain things, except that paying so much for an hour and a half of a walk seems a bit steep.

[Jdsk]

"Labour U-turns on promise of Scottish-style right to roam in England":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... in-england

Jonathan

[cycle tramp]

Gosh.. there's a surprise... what's next.. Labour to be re-branded as 'zero-sugar Conservative' or 'semi-skimmed Tory'..?

[Psamathe]

"Labour U-turns on promise of Scottish-style right to roam in England":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... in-england

Jonathan

Labour are increasingly showing themselves to be a "disappointment". They had some good'ish policies and they've back-tracked on most of them. They lost my vote the other day over another example of their poor judgement but had I still been intending to support them this U-turn would have turned me elsewhere.

Ian

[pwa]

"Labour U-turns on promise of Scottish-style right to roam in England":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... in-england

Jonathan

I'm not so sure I want the Scottish system here in Wales. We were up in Scotland for a few days in the summer and I really missed having a map with clear lines that I should be able to navigate across fields, through woods and past farm buildings. Without those green dash lines it is difficult to work out a route you are likely to find do-able, unless you stick to boring well-defined tracks. Where the field gates didn't line up to make a path, there were no stiles or pedestrian gates, so effectively there was next to no practical access across fields. Whereas here in my Welsh village I can hop over a stone stile a hundred metres from my front door and continue over numerous stiles to cross a dozen fields on my way down to the lighthouse.