Christina Mackenzie's crash

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Pebble
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Pebble »

Cowsham wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 12:34pm What doesn't make sense is that he/she stopped when in a terrible hurry -- what happened to make them stop ?

The number plate could've been from a long gone vehicle which might not ever have been registered on the Nova system etc -- still very illegal to display on a trailer on adopted roads.

also here in NI there's special short journey tax status for certain vehicles between land in close proximity that the farmer owns ( maybe at some point in time a road was built through their land etc ) don't know what happens across in England though.

All very odd but you can see the trailer clearly going fast as it is airborne there.

Edit -- apparently you can have an unregistered "farm vehicle" to travel short distances ie 7 miles.
I think it is parallel universe time, my understanding is that providing the farm also owns the vehicle of that reg, it doesn't have to match the towing vehicle - ie, so tractors from the same farm can share the same trailer. I'm pretty certain it is not allowed in any other industry!

No reason to believe he was in a hurry, probably always drives at 50 to 60, just can't be bothered to slow down for a cyclist. I lifted a hand off the handlebars, palm up, as if to say "what was that" . Clearly he seen this gesture and guessed it wasn't a thankyou for the careful overtake (which would have been pretty much the same gesture). He seemed very enraged, half my age twice my size with those strange eyes that folk who have over done it at the gym sometimes have. - I just smiled and kept going.

It is a horrible road that, too wide for a single track, too narrow for a normal carriageway. it is long and straight and speeds can be high. Stay near the side and there is the potential for a horrible close fast overtake, take the middle and it will look like you are purposefully getting in the way, which will just create enragement.
Tiggertoo
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Tiggertoo »

Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course will know that a constant when driving is always to be on the lookout for an escape route, a similar admonition when in a crowded place is also advisable, and for us cyclists, the same advice is worth following when out on a busy road.

I frequently ride on country roads where trucks with wildly flailing trailers are common and I constantly scan the road in front of me looking for any means to get off the road if necessary.

We should be in no doubt that on the roads we are in the way of other traffic and a driver coming upon us often has to take evasive action to avoid us. I don't know the mindset of the drivers I come across and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible. I know lots of cyclists take the position that they have a right to have their share of a road and ride accordingly, but my interest is living to ride another day and not engage in any form of posturing likely to cause offense leading to negative results that might be meted out to a fellow cyclist that a driver I might have inadvertently angered comes across another time.
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Cowsham
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Cowsham »

Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course will know that a constant when driving is always to be on the lookout for an escape route, a similar admonition when in a crowded place is also advisable, and for us cyclists, the same advice is worth following when out on a busy road.

I frequently ride on country roads where trucks with wildly flailing trailers are common and I constantly scan the road in front of me looking for any means to get off the road if necessary.

We should be in no doubt that on the roads we are in the way of other traffic and a driver coming upon us often has to take evasive action to avoid us. I don't know the mindset of the drivers I come across and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible. I know lots of cyclists take the position that they have a right to have their share of a road and ride accordingly, but my interest is living to ride another day and not engage in any form of posturing likely to cause offense leading to negative results that might be meted out to a fellow cyclist that a driver I might have inadvertently angered comes across another time.
I completely agree -- though I know there are many others on this forum don't.

The only time I ever did any kind of gesture ie the palms up was recently when a wee silly girl tried to overtake me on a left hand bend -- the driver meeting her head on tooting and flashing the lights till she had to eventually stop beside me and let me continue around the corner before she could overtake. I was thinking what the fluffy brain are you up to missy.
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Vorpal
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Vorpal »

Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course will know that a constant when driving is always to be on the lookout for an escape route, a similar admonition when in a crowded place is also advisable, and for us cyclists, the same advice is worth following when out on a busy road.

I frequently ride on country roads where trucks with wildly flailing trailers are common and I constantly scan the road in front of me looking for any means to get off the road if necessary.

We should be in no doubt that on the roads we are in the way of other traffic and a driver coming upon us often has to take evasive action to avoid us. I don't know the mindset of the drivers I come across and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible. I know lots of cyclists take the position that they have a right to have their share of a road and ride accordingly, but my interest is living to ride another day and not engage in any form of posturing likely to cause offense leading to negative results that might be meted out to a fellow cyclist that a driver I might have inadvertently angered comes across another time.
I guess where to ride, how to handle interactions with other road users is individual choice. Where do you draw the line in
make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible
? Taken to an extreme, that would mean pulling over to the side every time a driver comes, and I don't think that's what you mean.

I generally prioritise safety. After that, I am happy to accommodate other road users' convenience. But there are plenty of drivers who interpret me prioritising safety as me deliberately inconveniencing them. It seems that there would always be a few of those, no matter how obsequious I was.

Also, cyclists attempting to make things more convenient for drivers can easily be turned around to make it the cyclist's fault when things go wrong.

I personally don't know any cyclists (and I know quite a few) who engage in 'posturing' or do anything on the road to prove a point, over taking care of their own safety.
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Pebble
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Pebble »

Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course
I can guess what nonsense is on the way now.
and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me,
there we go, if all cyclists get off the road when they here a vehicle coming, then the world will just be tickity boo for drivers.

Problem is on windy days you don't always here a vehicle until it is too late, on this occasion I was too close to the nearside, if I had been following my usual tactics it would never of happened.
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Cowsham
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Cowsham »

Vorpal wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 8:10am
Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course will know that a constant when driving is always to be on the lookout for an escape route, a similar admonition when in a crowded place is also advisable, and for us cyclists, the same advice is worth following when out on a busy road.

I frequently ride on country roads where trucks with wildly flailing trailers are common and I constantly scan the road in front of me looking for any means to get off the road if necessary.

We should be in no doubt that on the roads we are in the way of other traffic and a driver coming upon us often has to take evasive action to avoid us. I don't know the mindset of the drivers I come across and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible. I know lots of cyclists take the position that they have a right to have their share of a road and ride accordingly, but my interest is living to ride another day and not engage in any form of posturing likely to cause offense leading to negative results that might be meted out to a fellow cyclist that a driver I might have inadvertently angered comes across another time.
I guess where to ride, how to handle interactions with other road users is individual choice. Where do you draw the line in
make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible
? Taken to an extreme, that would mean pulling over to the side every time a driver comes, and I don't think that's what you mean.
then why write that??
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Cowsham
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Cowsham »

Pebble wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 8:16am
Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course
I can guess what nonsense is on the way now. Yes yours
and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me,
there we go, if all cyclists get off the road when they here ( hear ) a vehicle coming, then the world will just be tickity boo for drivers.
You know that's not what was typed or being meant so why write it?
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Vorpal
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Vorpal »

Cowsham wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 8:32am
I guess where to ride, how to handle interactions with other road users is individual choice. Where do you draw the line in
make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible
? Taken to an extreme, that would mean pulling over to the side every time a driver comes, and I don't think that's what you mean.
then why write that??
As an example.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Cowsham
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Cowsham »

Vorpal wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 9:01am
Cowsham wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 8:32am
I guess where to ride, how to handle interactions with other road users is individual choice. Where do you draw the line in ? Taken to an extreme, that would mean pulling over to the side every time a driver comes, and I don't think that's what you mean.
then why write that??
As an example.
Oh that's alright then. :roll:
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Barrowman
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Barrowman »

Shame for the young lady . I am sure we all wish her well.
I have had the experience of being pushed off the road (yes physical cont act) by a large horse trailer that was wider than the towing vehicle ,( which only just missed me ) I think the tapered trailer front saved me from a much worse fate , I was aware it was coming a bit close on approach and fortunately there was a grassy side to the road where I ended up but there was significant contact. Just as well I wasn't on the trike .... :? :shock:
Have to say I think road Policing is woefully inadequate these days ,you can't do any journey car or bike without seeing repeated examples of reckless or very poor driving , ridiculous parking etc.
mattheus
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by mattheus »

Tiggertoo wrote: 1 Nov 2022, 6:58pm Those of us who have completed the Advanced Driving Course will know that a constant when driving is always to be on the lookout for an escape route, a similar admonition when in a crowded place is also advisable, and for us cyclists, the same advice is worth following when out on a busy road.

I frequently ride on country roads where trucks with wildly flailing trailers are common and I constantly scan the road in front of me looking for any means to get off the road if necessary.

We should be in no doubt that on the roads we are in the way of other traffic and a driver coming upon us often has to take evasive action to avoid us. I don't know the mindset of the drivers I come across and I want to make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced by me, so I do all I can to make that possible
I think it's rather telling that you don't mention worrying about an untrained driver - let's say in a similar or heavier vehicle - coming up behind you while in your car.

I hope you would make it as easy as possible for that driver not to be inconvenienced.
irc
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by irc »

I use a mirror so on windy days I still know if a vehicle is approaching. On a few occasions I have needed to move to the nearside as vehicles passed and were going to be too close. Both carelessly and sometimes deliberately.

A big benefit of riding well out from the kerb is that since the vast majority of drivers won't deliberately hit you there is space to move over to increase clearance from what would otherwise be a close pass.

I have once had to ride off the road as a large speeding vehicle which filled the lane went past while there was oncoming traffic. That wouldn't have been a glancing blow but a full on hit. The driver did hit the horn about 3 seconds before he was going to hit me but I had already picked my spot on the gravel shoulder and the bike (nice stable tourer) stayed upright.

I know plenty of riders don't use mirrors but in my opinion you are then handing your safety completely to passing drivers.
mattheus
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by mattheus »

irc wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 1:44pm
I know plenty of riders don't use mirrors but in my opinion you are then handing your safety completely to passing drivers.
You are trusting your fellow road users anyway. So am I.

Cycling is a very safe activity - that's why despite not owning mirrors, I have never been rear-ended. Sure, it happens; but so do a thousand other types of collision, they are just not significantly numerous. I've only been hit hard once, by a SMIDSY. I saw it coming, too late - mirror wouldn't have helped. I've been much worse injured when I was driving!
irc
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by irc »

mattheus wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 2:52pm
irc wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 1:44pm
I know plenty of riders don't use mirrors but in my opinion you are then handing your safety completely to passing drivers.
You are trusting your fellow road users anyway. So am I.

Cycling is a very safe activity - that's why despite not owning mirrors, I have never been rear-ended. Sure, it happens; but so do a thousand other types of collision, they are just not significantly numerous. I've only been hit hard once, by a SMIDSY. I saw it coming, too late - mirror wouldn't have helped. I've been much worse injured when I was driving!
I've never been saved by a seatbelt. I still wear it. Every little thing I can do to improve my safety helps. There are plenty of examples where serious injury could have been avoided if a rider saw it coming. In my case I wouldn't be here if I had placed my trust in every overtaking driver.

If you choose to take an avoidable risk that is your choice of course.
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Cowsham
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Re: Christina Mackenzie's crash

Post by Cowsham »

irc wrote: 2 Nov 2022, 1:44pm I use a mirror so on windy days I still know if a vehicle is approaching. On a few occasions I have needed to move to the nearside as vehicles passed and were going to be too close. Both carelessly and sometimes deliberately.

A big benefit of riding well out from the kerb is that since the vast majority of drivers won't deliberately hit you there is space to move over to increase clearance from what would otherwise be a close pass.

I have once had to ride off the road as a large speeding vehicle which filled the lane went past while there was oncoming traffic. That wouldn't have been a glancing blow but a full on hit. The driver did hit the horn about 3 seconds before he was going to hit me but I had already picked my spot on the gravel shoulder and the bike (nice stable tourer) stayed upright.

I know plenty of riders don't use mirrors but in my opinion you are then handing your safety completely to passing drivers.
I've thought about a mirror and thinking of fitting one on the right bar.

I'm lucky enough that I can get mostly off road on my commute to work but there is about 5 miles of it I'm on road though a very quiet one. A mirror would be a good addition through town I'd guess.
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