Cycling UK Forum

axel_knutt wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 10:58am

mattheus wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 9:36am I hate pushing my bike on the flat - I would rather ride at 3mph in a crowded area, or through obstacles, than get off and push. (there is an argument that I take up less room, and thus can be less of a nuisance)

I can stop a fully laden touring bike quicker with the brakes when I'm on it than if I'm walking with it at arms length to keep the pedals from getting wrapped around my ankles.

However, the main problem I have when wheeling the bike and holding it at the stem/bar clamp, is if the front wheel loses contact with the road even momentarily (eg bumping up/down a kerb), the pannier weight causes the bike to rotate about an axis passing through my hand and the point the rear wheel contacts the road. As it does this, the front wheel kicks into the air (and any nearby pedestrian), promptly followed by the bar twisting out of my grip, and the bike falling on the ground.

Yes!! A bike just seems to be a lot less wieldy when you're pushing it, more so with luggage on it. (and if you don't have luggage, it can't be a very important journey ... )

a.twiddler wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 1:51pm
I became a victim of my and other riders' expectations and would continue to climb while others got off and walked. No matter how steep or long a climb was, I considered that I had failed if I had to walk it. As time went by and I went farther afield, even riding alone with no one to witness my progress but the occasional sheep, I stuck to that principle. Over the years I met many others who had come to that way of thinking and it became something of a macho thing. We didn't admit to walking up hills, it was a heinous crime of which one never spoke.

There are only two occasions I can recall when I had to get of and walk a bit. One was going up Fleet Moss on a racing bike with a lowest gear of 42 (front) X 28 (rear). Too high a gear for such a long and ever-steepening hill, even with a lot of weaving. I put twiddlin' gears on for the next attempt a year later. It was still hard, mind - but no walking.

The other time was going up the steep exit from the Cych valley at Cwm Morgan in West Wales. The Welsh valleys are river-cut and so steepest at the bottom. They also tend to collect the run-offs down at the bottom, inclusive of mud and green slime. I had a wheel spin and came to a stop with no possibility of restarting until I walked up a bit to a less steep and unmudded part.

Is this disinclination to get off and walk a macho thing? Perhaps but I'll claim not. A bike, you see, is made to be ridden rather than walked about. All one has to do to keep riding is find the right low gear and install it. The same applies to any tool and its purposes - why find yourself hitting a nail with a rock because you bought an inadequate hammer?

These two articles may prove of use to those who have to walk up the steeps but would rather cycle if they could.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/hills-are- ... -the-flat/

https://www.cyclingabout.com/gradient-t ... pest-hill/

**********
On the other hand, I feel no disdain for, or superiority to, others who prefer to walk a bike up a hill now and then. There's no law of the universe that says everyone has be like me in their habits; or me like them.

It's surprising, though, eh, how many humans think others ought to be just like them and are inadequate or inferior if they're not! I blame the British class system, which is predicated on the notion of The Great Chain of Being - that foolish old assumption that every dang thing is in a hierarchy of worth established by some big nasty man-god in the sky, with humans at the top; and some humans at the very pinnacle of the top.

Cugel

Even as a terrible climber, I like to take on the challenge of steep hills.

But haven't e-bikes made this debate somewhat academic?

Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 10:35am As for pushing/walking up hills, sometimes, especially when heavily laden (eg camping) it's necessary. And sometimes I do it even when it's not necessary. On a long ride, it's good to use a slightly different set of muscles for a short while.

Right on -- it would never cross my mind what Mr/Mrs nobody driving, walking or cycling past thinks of me walking/pushing up a hill. How do they know how far I've travelled or travelling to. Good to give your rrrs a rest too.

drossall wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 8:49pm
But haven't e-bikes made this debate somewhat academic?

Yes and some you wouldn't even know they were ebikes so not worth bothering with.

I use my ebike for commuting but do actually prefer riding my non powered bikes. If I need to be somewhere without being knackered and sweaty then ebike it is and I really don't care who thinks what about that.

If anyone says out about it I'll tell them but you drive a car don't you? ( some "cyclists" drive a car, with bike on top, to a place far away with no hills then ride round that for a bit )

drossall wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 8:49pm Even as a terrible climber, I like to take on the challenge of steep hills.

But haven't e-bikes made this debate somewhat academic?

Only if you've got one ... and you ain't flattened the battery with one hill too many.

Funnily enough, most e-bikes have a walk-mode as well as the more powerful modes. However, even that doesn't work with a flat battery. Not so bad with a svelte 13kg racy e-bike. Those 30kg Boscher e-motorbikes don't look like summick I'd want to walk up Fleet Moss with a dead battery, though!

E-bikes have this major advantage: they can be set so you only get to use the motor in extremis, with you still providing 100% of the thrusting 90% of the time. But the fact that you can resort to the e-thrusts when the gradient rears up like a wall means that no route, even those having immense hills along the way, will dissuade you from attempting it. On the contrary - you go about the map looking for the rascals, because you can.

Cugel

As my old grandad used to say "There's not a hill made in Britain you can't walk up!"

Dingdong wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 10:36pm As my old grandad used to say "There's not a hill made in Britain you can't walk up!"

Well, that depends on how icy it is! More than once I've gone out on the bike with them studded tyres on, feeling pleased with myself that I'm far less likely to skid on some black ice or the frosty patch in the hedge-shadow. Once, though, I got off next to a black ice patch and nearly came a cropper! No studs on the shoes, see?

What if a habitual cyclist-walker found themselves in the dip, unable to cycle either forward or backwards whence they came and so had to walk up a road evil with the icy patches!? An ungainly ski back down, perhaps, clutching wildly at the bike-pole whilst doing some shouty-swears.

Cugel

Its unhelpful

that the majority of motorised road users think they 'must' overtake cycles at any cost
that ditto think that bicycles should give way to them even when they, the bicycles, have right of way
that highways authorities erect signs telling cyclists to dismount when they actual mean we should stop/give way/return to the road

and so on....

On the subject of hills, I've never been a great hill climber, i'm just built wrong, but i can ride up most stuff. On occasion i have walked for short distances due to gearing or road surface / conditions but its not something i do often. I have been known to stop for a breather on a climb, I actually get to the top of Holme Moss quicker with a short, 30 second breather part way up than if i grind my way through things. If i can 'clean' a climb it foes bring me some small joy, if i stop for a breather, well its not the end of the world, if i resort to walking, well i'm sure i can mitigate the reason into a positive

As to what i wear to ride, well i do tend to more racey kit, i just find it more comfortable for the riding i do, often 5/6 hours in the saddle. I sometimes use more 'normal' stuff on more leisurely rides but it can get uncomfortable pretty darn quick if you ride that bit harder/faster. I think its seen as more normal now for people to wear cycle specific clothing, where even 20 years ago you were seen as some sort of alien walking into a cafe in all the lycra. (having said that, some people really shouldn't or at least find stuff that fits a bit better!)

My thanks to all who have contributed to the thread, it’s been interesting to read all the responses and I hope that others will find it at least interesting and maybe helpful too.

To quote myself:

Whilst cycling we might find our activity unhelpfully constrained by attitudes and social norms that really have questionable value. In starting this thread I had a particular restriction in mind but, to be honest, there are so many others.

Whilst out this morning I stopped and rested for a moment or two and thought how proper cyclists don’t give up like that, silly programming and social pressure again. Similarly yesterday I was caught out by the rain but instead of ploughing on and getting soaked I waited in a bus shelter for forty minutes until the rain eased enough to just get wet rather than sodden. Of course a proper cyclist wouldn’t have waited … or would they? Life can be better once we start to look at throwing off unhelpful programming and social pressures.

Carlton green wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 1:52pm My thanks to all who have contributed to the thread, it’s been interesting to read all the responses and I hope that others will find it at least interesting and maybe helpful too.

To quote myself:

Whilst cycling we might find our activity unhelpfully constrained by attitudes and social norms that really have questionable value. In starting this thread I had a particular restriction in mind but, to be honest, there are so many others.

Whilst out this morning I stopped and rested for a moment or two and thought how proper cyclists don’t give up like that, silly programming and social pressure again. Similarly yesterday I was caught out by the rain but instead of ploughing on and getting soaked I waited in a bus shelter for forty minutes until the rain eased enough to just get wet rather than sodden. Of course a proper cyclist wouldn’t have waited … or would they?

These decisions about riding uphill or in the rain are made by the individual cyclist. S/he might be influencedby a variety of factors. That, of course, is purely their own business.
Most of us cyclists have a certain amount of challenge-answering in our make up, Why not? It may be one of the impulses which gets us into the saddle.
I have low enough gears to make riding a steep gradient about as strenuous as walking (I used to ride in an area with plenty of steep hills). Stopping and dismounting, and then remounting seems to me to add to exertion. I have been known to lean on the wall to rest, rather than climb off!

Fascinating thread, thanks for initiating it CG.

I've always been prepared to walk up hills, really because of the gearing that we had 40-50 years ago. First new bike had Sturmey AW (1966), but first tourer was a new Galaxy in 1978. From memory the lowest gear on that was ~40", so lugging camping gear uphill could be challenging. As others have mentioned, I find a bit of a walk gives one a chance for a breather, and in a group can be quicker than those riding.
We ride on flat pedals as we like mixed terrain routes, which makes dismounting easier, and we try to pace ourselves so that we have enough energy to carry some shopping on the way home.
As for ebikes, well never say never. But at the moment I'm happy taking my bike for a walk, and I also have some reservations about the lifecycle implications.

Carlton green wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 1:52pm My thanks to all who have contributed to the thread, it’s been interesting to read all the responses and I hope that others will find it at least interesting and maybe helpful too.
...

I'd be interested in hearing from those who feel these pressures about where they come from and how they are communicated.

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 2:33pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 1:52pm My thanks to all who have contributed to the thread, it’s been interesting to read all the responses and I hope that others will find it at least interesting and maybe helpful too.
...

I'd be interested in hearing from those who feel these pressures about where they come from and how they are communicated.

Thanks

Jonathan

Well that might be an interesting diversion and to some extent all things overlap but, really, such a diversion could get a bit too serious and is surely more something for the Tea Shop section of the forum rather than Health and Fitness. Let’s keep things light here, please .

Carlton green wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 5:23pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 2:33pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑22 Oct 2022, 1:52pm My thanks to all who have contributed to the thread, it’s been interesting to read all the responses and I hope that others will find it at least interesting and maybe helpful too.
...

I'd be interested in hearing from those who feel these pressures about where they come from and how they are communicated.

Well that might be an interesting diversion and to some extent all things overlap but, really, such a diversion could get a bit too serious and is surely more something for the Tea Shop section of the forum rather than Health and Fitness. Let’s keep things light here, please.

I thought from the original post that was what you wanted to explore:

Carlton green wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 7:42amSometimes the biggest things that hold us back are (particular and felt) social pressures that really should be set to one side. What are your experiences of and responses to ‘unhelpful’ attitudes and social norms?

But if not...

I get off and walk when it's too steep to ride. I don't feel any pressure from anyone else about this, but when we're out together I know that my wife will be waiting at the top of the hill.

I normally cycle in walking or casual work clothing. I don't feel any pressure from anyone else about what I wear when I'm riding.

Jonathan