Cycling UK Forum

I see the confusion, sorry and as I said above topics tend to overlap in parts. My objective is to keep the topic focussed towards individuals’ choices that relate to cycling, health and fitness and away from anything that might in some way be political. The World shaping stuff is for the Tea Room, enter it with caution .

I am surprised no one has mentioned the universal 24 inch gear.



That's 2 feet to those who have been metricated

stopped and rested for a moment or two and thought how proper cyclists don’t give up like that,

A positive comment on human nature: multiple times when I’ve paused somewhere to take a breather, have a drink, and contemplate the view people have stopped (drivers, other cyclists) to check that I’m OK (maybe I don’t look it!), and if I stop to check my route in the middle of what has hitherto seemed a deserted wood, somebody will suddenly materialise (MTB rider, dog-walker) and offer to point me in the right direction.

I admit to choosing flattish routes, not because of disdain for walking but simply because my lung condition makes walking uphill, even without a bike, very difficult. I have to stop and rest twice walking a local slope that I can ride in one, if slowly.
When I rode fixed I had no shame in using the universal 24" gear.

djnotts wrote: ↑24 Oct 2022, 3:43pm I admit to choosing flattish routes, not because of disdain for walking but simply because my lung condition makes walking uphill, even without a bike, very difficult. I have to stop and rest twice walking a local slope that I can ride in one, if slowly.
When I rode fixed I had no shame in using the universal 24" gear.

Now there’s an interesting thought. If a double pace is the circumference of the virtual walking wheel then what size wheel would it be? Those with say a 15” bottom gear might possibly be geared below the virtual walking wheel?

H’mm, 39”/3.142 = 12.1” (diameter of the virtual walking wheel). So that didn’t work but maybe there’s more efficient muscle use on those really low gears than that found in walking … the bottom gear with my three speed is in the low thirties and walking is clearly easier.

Anyway, it’s an interesting challenge to the idea that walking is (always) easier than peddling. I’m all for testing the validity of what we do out of habit, custom and social pressure.

How easy or difficult a climb feels is a function of vertical speed, the distance one lifts oneself and bike in a given time, expressed more formally it’s about the rate at which work is done, so one’s power output. I think that most of why getting off and pushing is easier than pedalling on seriously steep bits is simply because it allows one to ascend more slowly than is feasible while pedalling the particular bike; it reduces the rate of work; it reduce power output.

My instinct is that if one has low-enough gears to permit a viable cadence, which allows one’s power output to be kept within one’s sustainable capacity, and the ability to remain upright on the bike, riding is always more efficient than pushing, because the action of pedalling is more efficient than the action of walking, which we all know by instinct from experience on the flat.

I’m not good with “gear inches”, which seems a daft unit of measure to me, but if I’ve calculated correctly my bike has a bottom gear of 24”, and my son’s, which I borrow occasionally, 15”. While I can think of some hills where I might run out of puff (available power) and have to push mine, I can’t think of any where I’d need, or even want, to do the same with his, because it is possible to maintain a usable cadence down to the speed of a person plodding up the same hill pushing their bike (and probably have a chat with them along the way). The required power can be kept down to (what little) I can supply.

Maybe the lesson from this train of thought is to get even lower gears on my bike, for very occasional use, but I don’t think that’s do-able without sacrificing other things.

My objective is to keep the topic focussed towards individuals’ choices that relate to cycling, health and fitness

I hadn’t spotted that this extends to “health and fitness”.

The number of social norms that impact adversely on those two things is so great that it’s difficult to know where to start!

The social norm of “non-active travel” might have the closest connection to cycling, but norms around diet, alcohol consumption, non-exposure to outdoor daylight in winter, television etc watching (=loafing), clothing to be worn in ‘office’ work settings etc all play their part, and, despite the road being paved with good intentions, I’ve been thoroughly normed in a few of them.

Nearholmer wrote: ↑25 Oct 2022, 7:43am

My objective is to keep the topic focussed towards individuals’ choices that relate to cycling, health and fitness

I hadn’t spotted that this extends to “health and fitness”.

The number of social norms that impact adversely on those two things is so great that it’s difficult to know where to start!

The social norm of “non-active travel” might have the closest connection to cycling, but norms around diet, alcohol consumption, non-exposure to outdoor daylight in winter, television etc watching (=loafing), clothing to be worn in ‘office’ work settings etc all play their part, and, despite the road being paved with good intentions, I’ve been thoroughly normed in a few of them.

Yes, a focus towards cycling plus - mental and physical - heath and fitness.

I find that life is very heavily littered with misinformation and various forms of misdirection, only some of which we eventually recognise for what it is.

Whilst on my bike yesterday I considered the logic of lauding high mileage cyclists, praising them for doing say a circular route of a hundred miles in one day. The high mileage is a worthy achievement, that’s true, but such rides also tend to be carried out with an overly strong focus on progress which, IMHO, is both unhelpful and misguided. There are many reasons why I cycle and for me it’s important to (normally) set progress rates and distance to one side. Instead of looking at progress rates and distance take time to stop, look around and better enjoy the journey; cycling is about more than covierng the route, you really should engage with - and enjoy - what you find along it.

For me there’s a certain unexpected plus to riding a three speed hub gear. Far from the commonly voiced wisdom that the SA AW isn’t good for cycling I’ve found mine to be excellent and so in assorted ways. Yes, compared to a more complex derailleur set-up, I do find that the SA limits my range and my rate of progress. However, whist doing so, it gives me time to enjoy the view of the road, it persuades me to walk a hill from time to time, it persuades me to rest a while here and there and it simplifies my riding. The limits of the SA encourage a different mindset, one that’s just happy to be out on the road and - as I steadily just ‘tap along’ - a mind that’s more interacting with what I come across rather than ‘racing’ past it all as I head for my ‘achievement’ goal.

I’m using Wandrer which is making my riding interesting. I’ve lived in my area for 62 years riding for 55 years of that. Yesterday I found a byway I hadn’t ridden so took it most of it was okay gravel I had to walk about 200m of it this was about 5 miles from home. There’s just over 5500 miles I can ride in Wiltshire I’ve done 1500 so far. More exploring to do

Yes, thankfully “gravel riding” has eroded the speed-distance thing a bit, in favour of “interesting”. I’m another (if I’ve interpreted you correctly) 62yo, riding for 55, and have prioritised what I used to call “path touring” for 30+ of those years, but can now join group rides, because it’s become a fashionable type of cycling.

Yesterday morning was spent trundling over rolling hills on this sort of route. Not fast, so not all that far, but very good aerobic exercise, and very good for the soul.

crossy wrote: ↑26 Oct 2022, 8:27am I’m using Wandrer which is making my riding interesting. I’ve lived in my area for 62 years riding for 55 years of that. Yesterday I found a byway I hadn’t ridden so took it most of it was okay gravel I had to walk about 200m of it this was about 5 miles from home. There’s just over 5500 miles I can ride in Wiltshire I’ve done 1500 so far. More exploring to do

H’mm, perceptions, attitudes, reality and Wiltshire. Isn’t Wiltshire that rather drab, landlocked, rainy, parched, freezing, boiling, windswept, boring place that has little to offer to any tourist and is best avoided? That’s what I thought until I moved to live in Wiltshire and, to be honest, once you start looking there’s more than plenty to like and enjoy there - sometimes the ‘gems’ are ‘hidden’ right under our nose. Yes, I’ve found (personal judgement) other places to be more attractive and in some way(s) more perfect. Wiltshire wouldn’t be my preferred holiday location - I prefer places where I can see the Sea - but I’d happily live and cycle there again . People needing either perfection or the best (of what is good) is both untrue and an unhelpful attitude; instead of wanting ideal places we need to work at enjoying what we have, I was pleasantly surprised by what Wiltshire had.

If you haven’t done the Wiltshire cycle-way already then consider finding out about it. The route is decades old, the old guys who established it will be long gone but their legacy lives on. IIRC there are some old roads and green lanes in Wiltshire too, just the type of cycling that I enjoy and wish that I’d done more of when there.

crossy wrote: ↑26 Oct 2022, 8:27am I’m using Wandrer which is making my riding interesting. I’ve lived in my area for 62 years riding for 55 years of that. Yesterday I found a byway I hadn’t ridden so took it most of it was okay gravel I had to walk about 200m of it this was about 5 miles from home. There’s just over 5500 miles I can ride in Wiltshire I’ve done 1500 so far. More exploring to do

Over the last couple of years i've ridden some 1900km in mostly north west Wiltshire, a chunk of that is bridle/byway, the only thing stopping me riding more widely in the county is the two hour ride to get past Trowbridge from where i am at the moment in East Brizzle!

I have ridden down to Salisbury, 200km round trip the way i went, the guy at the cafe near Old Sarum was amazed i'd come so far and would be riding back. Its a 'norm' that has crept up on us, the disbelief that a journey of a mere 60 miles is possible ny a 'normal' bloke or blokette on a bike. I've had similar responses on much shorter rides too, 'you've come how far?'. My parents were riding back in the fifties, they thought nothing of doing a similar journey after work on a Friday night and Sunday club rides would often be the thick end of 100 miles.

It has, it seems, become a social norm to not think possible feats that our forefathers (and indeed mothers) considered unremarkable. We can probably include walking to school/town etc.

The Wiltshire Cycle way is still sign posted around the county so might give it a try you can still get the map of it I think.

This is an interesting thread, not least because it exposes what I think is a drawback in the social rides that many CTC branches do.
There has to be room, even on social rides, for anybody to stop and take in the view, or just to see whatever catches your attention.
Just to take a short break from the saddle, perhaps after a stiff climb, is something that often gets frowned upon or is simply ignored in the haste to get on. It is this philosophy that unfortunately makes social cycling an exclusive pursuit that does prevent lots of people from joining.
As well as my CTC membership and participation in club rides, I belong to a Potholing Club that has quite a number of older members who no longer climb or go underground. We have a monthly cycle ride and a monthly walk, often going away camping or hostelling.
We certainly put the miles in, both on the Fells and awheel, but our exploits are leisurely and we often take brewing gear for a lunchtime cuppa. During the summer, there is never that imperative to get back for tea, so we ride into the evening, weather permitting.
It's even been known for us to crash out for a nap en route and on the hottest of days, a dip in the river.
I was never a competitive rider and just do not fit into the mould of the peloton.

I have ridden down to Salisbury, 200km round trip the way i went, the guy at the cafe near Old Sarum was amazed i'd come so far and would be riding back. Its a 'norm' that has crept up on us, the disbelief that a journey of a mere 60 miles is possible ny a 'normal' bloke or blokette on a bike. I've had similar responses on much shorter rides too, 'you've come how far?'. My parents were riding back in the fifties, they thought nothing of doing a similar journey after work on a Friday night and Sunday club rides would often be the thick end of 100 miles.

It has, it seems, become a social norm to not think possible feats that our forefathers (and indeed mothers) considered unremarkable. We can probably include walking to school/town etc.

Yes, people don’t believe that they can cycle any distance and particularly long distances. As a young man my girl friend lived in another Town which was nearly 30 miles away. On a Friday evening I’d cycle off to see her and return on the Sunday afternoon, the journeys took over two hours each way and riding through a winter night can be jolly cold and miserably dark - I’d do it again though . That exploit was a mere nothing to the guy in the local cycle shop, as youngsters he and his wife would cycle right through the night and cover amazing distances to some far off place - a practice wasn’t that uncommon - and they likely they did it on three speed bikes too.

The Wiltshire Cycle way is still sign posted around the county so might give it a try you can still get the map of it I think.

https://www.sustrans.org.uk/find-other- ... e-cycleway

https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/article/12 ... e-Cycleway

… I think is a drawback in the social rides that many CTC branches do. There has to be room, even on social rides, for anybody to stop and take in the view, or just to see whatever catches your attention. Just to take a short break from the saddle, perhaps after a stiff climb, is something that often gets frowned upon or is simply ignored in the haste to get on. It is this philosophy that unfortunately makes social cycling an exclusive pursuit that does prevent lots of people from joining.

Yes, the not stopping thing thing seems daft to me too but I guess it’s a feature of many of the riders having been there before and the difficulty (?) of stopping and starting a group of riders. My local club is better, they sometimes do take viewing breaks and their pace is ‘inclusive’.


I was out on the bike yesterday and stopped by a church graveyard. Glancing at one of the stones it said in memoriam of Bill who died on … aged 52. That reminded me that retirement and old age are far from guaranteed and it’s daft - unhelpful even - to think otherwise: prepare for tomorrow but (also) make sure that you enjoy today too.