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Re: Unhelpful attitudes and social norms.

Posted: 28 Oct 2022, 4:05pm
by Bmblbzzz
mattheus wrote: 28 Oct 2022, 1:10pm A vaguely similar trick (which I stole from a Welsh internet post somewhere/sometime) is hill catchup/repeats.

You all set off at the same time, but the fast riders are encouraged to "smash it", and when they summit, freewheel down to rejoin at the back of the group. (thus having to repeat at least some of the climb).
In a perfect world, you are all equally knackered at the top.
This is common in running clubs, where it's often known as "sheepdogging" for obvious reasons.

Re: Unhelpful attitudes and social norms.

Posted: 28 Oct 2022, 4:11pm
by mattheus
Bmblbzzz wrote: 28 Oct 2022, 4:05pm
mattheus wrote: 28 Oct 2022, 1:10pm A vaguely similar trick (which I stole from a Welsh internet post somewhere/sometime) is hill catchup/repeats.

You all set off at the same time, but the fast riders are encouraged to "smash it", and when they summit, freewheel down to rejoin at the back of the group. (thus having to repeat at least some of the climb).
In a perfect world, you are all equally knackered at the top.
This is common in running clubs, where it's often known as "sheepdogging" for obvious reasons.
...and of course runners have Hash events too! (harder to implement a wheeled version ... but not impossible ... )

Re: Unhelpful attitudes and social norms.

Posted: 28 Oct 2022, 4:50pm
by Nearholmer
How many people would typically be in these groups and how long were the sections? Standing around waiting for others can get quite chilly in non-summer.
IIRC, the old limit was 12 total, including ride leader and assistant. It has now reduced to either 8 or 10 total, I forget which, after a review decided that the “peloton bus” could sometimes get too long with 12, creating troubles on some tight and twisty roads. Popular group rides sometimes get many applicants, so if there is another leader and assistant available, they run as two “buses”, X minutes apart, but I forget what X is.

The hill sections chosen weren’t hugely long, maybe a mile. One popular one was a long straight, so you could watch people climb all the way.

These beginner-gentle rides are either c30 miles with a cafe stop or c20 without, IIRC, and might have one or two of these individual bits.

We also have gentle, purely social rides using only paved cycleways, and not particularly gentle “gravel” rides on unpaved routes - the latter have a fair few stops to regather simply because everyone spreads out when climbing on single-track or no-track (grass) sections, these are about the only group things I do these days.

Re: Unhelpful attitudes and social norms.

Posted: 28 Oct 2022, 10:44pm
by WEBH
Carlton green wrote: 26 Oct 2022, 7:41am
Nearholmer wrote: 25 Oct 2022, 7:43am
My objective is to keep the topic focussed towards individuals’ choices that relate to cycling, health and fitness
I hadn’t spotted that this extends to “health and fitness”.

The number of social norms that impact adversely on those two things is so great that it’s difficult to know where to start!

The social norm of “non-active travel” might have the closest connection to cycling, but norms around diet, alcohol consumption, non-exposure to outdoor daylight in winter, television etc watching (=loafing), clothing to be worn in ‘office’ work settings etc all play their part, and, despite the road being paved with good intentions, I’ve been thoroughly normed in a few of them.
Yes, a focus towards cycling plus - mental and physical - heath and fitness.

I find that life is very heavily littered with misinformation and various forms of misdirection, only some of which we eventually recognise for what it is.

Whilst on my bike yesterday I considered the logic of lauding high mileage cyclists, praising them for doing say a circular route of a hundred miles in one day. The high mileage is a worthy achievement, that’s true, but such rides also tend to be carried out with an overly strong focus on progress which, IMHO, is both unhelpful and misguided. There are many reasons why I cycle and for me it’s important to (normally) set progress rates and distance to one side. Instead of looking at progress rates and distance take time to stop, look around and better enjoy the journey; cycling is about more than covierng the route, you really should engage with - and enjoy - what you find along it.

For me there’s a certain unexpected plus to riding a three speed hub gear. Far from the commonly voiced wisdom that the SA AW isn’t good for cycling I’ve found mine to be excellent and so in assorted ways. Yes, compared to a more complex derailleur set-up, I do find that the SA limits my range and my rate of progress. However, whist doing so, it gives me time to enjoy the view of the road, it persuades me to walk a hill from time to time, it persuades me to rest a while here and there and it simplifies my riding. The limits of the SA encourage a different mindset, one that’s just happy to be out on the road and - as I steadily just ‘tap along’ - a mind that’s more interacting with what I come across rather than ‘racing’ past it all as I head for my ‘achievement’ goal.
This really struck a chord with me. Although I like to get out and pretend to be heroic on hills and stuff, my most enjoyable rides are on the 3 speed Brompton around town, just looking around, but also doing odd bits of shopping and so forth. The speed of the ride goes out of the window and I just seem to enjoy the sensation so much more.
Maybe I shall have to show the 'fast bike' who's boss!

Re: Unhelpful attitudes and social norms.

Posted: 1 Nov 2022, 8:58am
by Cugel
WEBH wrote: 28 Oct 2022, 10:44pm Although I like to get out and pretend to be heroic on hills and stuff, my most enjoyable rides are on the 3 speed Brompton around town, just looking around, but also doing odd bits of shopping and so forth. The speed of the ride goes out of the window and I just seem to enjoy the sensation so much more.
Maybe I shall have to show the 'fast bike' who's boss!
Like a collie dog, you will find that Tricross responds best if you treat it as your best pal, eager for adventures that appeal to you both. Collies like chasing after and finding the stick, to bring it back for another go. Tricrosses like thrusting up hills then careering down the other side for a go up the next one, especially if the lanes involved are all mucky, steep and twisty.

Don't forget to take it a treat or two just in case it baulks at the very steep hills. It likes a 34 tooth sprocket now and then. :-)

Cugel