Cycling UK Forum

Whilst cycling we might find our activity unhelpfully constrained by attitudes and social norms that really have questionable value. In starting this thread I had a particular restriction in mind but, to be honest, there are so many others.

For decades, indeed I can’t remember it being any different, I would struggle to pedal up particular steep hills, take failure to do so as a blow to my pride, feel social pressure and either not ride at all or use routes that avoided pride sapping hills. Of course, when I was able, I fitted better and lower gears but there’s always that place you can’t quite get up - or that leaves you shattered if you do - and upgrades use resources that you might not always have. For some daft reason we feel in some way inadequate or socially shamed by walking up a hill … which feeling is all rather pointless and unhelpful, it also negatively impacts on wellbeing too.

These days I cycle up what I can climb using simple bikes and sustainable effort, if the hill is overly challenging then before it gets too sapping I get off and walk. Now this culture shift is important in many ways:
I cycle without fearing either a route or a journey.
I cycle without being overly hung up on how adequate or not my bike is.
I gain strength and fitness by cycling more often and attempting hills without concern. Whatever I comfortably enough manage is fine and contributes to ongoing fitness, and whilst I manage all of most hills it’s now ok to walk when I want to.
I visibly demonstrate to others that it’s ok to push your bike and, by extension of that thought, that others can use their bike to go anywhere without fear of hills.

That last point above is particularly important as a lot of folk don’t cycle anywhere because they can’t manage the hills. It might also be that I demonstrate that a simple and inexpensive bike - rather than all the gear - can take someone wherever they wish to go.

Sometimes the biggest things that hold us back are (particular and felt) social pressures that really should be set to one side. What are your experiences of and responses to ‘unhelpful’ attitudes and social norms?

Very well put.

The “no pushing” norm is fairly new, in that I can recall it being quite normal to see people pushing bikes up steep bits, of which there are plenty where I grew-up, when I was a boy, and as a teenager I felt dead clever because I didn’t have to push anywhere locally. I think the move from cycling being primarily a utility, to it being primarily a sport/exercise is what flipped the norm, coinciding as it did with the arrival of zillion-geared mountain bikes.

If you go back to the early years of mass cycling, pushing was definitely an integral part of it. I read GH G Wells’ ‘Wheels of Chance’ back in the summer on recommendation from a member here, and that is full of pushing (and sudden unplanned dismounts).

Other daft social norms? There are huge ones around ‘keeping up with the jones’s’ if you live in anything like a ‘middle class’ area. Leads to incredible waste of resources just to signal social status.

I have travelled quite a bit in Africa where cycling is very prevalent, especially in the more rural areas. Bicycles are not just used for travel, but for carrying loads, some prodigious.

I was always surprised at seeing cyclists very frequently (sometimes near universally) pushing their bicycles up hills, even ones that I felt were not that steep. It got me thinking, why don't I push my bike up hills? It's easier than cycling; what am I trying to prove?

I rationalised that when cycling is part of the daily grind of life, you will try to minimise the effort. For many (most?) of us in more affluent countries, we cycle for reasons not associated with our daily existence, but for fitness, for lifestyle, for showing off, for companionship with cycling buddies.....etc.

IMHO, cycle up hills if you want, but equally there is no reason not to push. I also hear the words of my old father in law, "all bicycles have at least has 3 gears, sitting, standing and walking". I remember that when the hill is too long.

As a teenager in the 70s our CTC section would regularly get off to walk up hills. There was a 'dismount' call from the ride leader and off we got.

The other cycling norm that grinds my gears is cycle-specific clothing. It's only a bike ride, so why do we need to dress strangely for it? (racing excepted)

millimole wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 8:36am As a teenager in the 70s our CTC section would regularly get off to walk up hills. There was a 'dismount' call from the ride leader and off we got.

The other cycling norm that grinds my gears is cycle-specific clothing. It's only a bike ride, so why do we need to dress strangely for it? (racing excepted)

In the fifties and early sixties all sorts of clothing was worn for normal cycling and club runs.
Turning up in "racing kit" would make you a subject of derision.
In winter surplus American "combat jackets" were popular as were "Donkey jackets" virtually everyone had a cape, like a lot of people I also had a Sou'wester . Summer was normal short sleeve shirts and shorts (made of drill or corduroy and double seated if they were cycle specific.
I did however use a "racing" top with pockets front and rear for touring - I miss those front pockets.
Present everyday cycle clothing is very like racing kit - maybe a more relaxed "club fit" is the only real difference.
I quite like modern lycra reinforced cycling kit (only a small percentage is actually lycra ) except although it's fine for cycling I don't like sitting around in it . I especially like padded shorts.
One doesn't have to wear cycle specific clothes I know one cyclist who does great distances wearing ordinary clothes and lace up brogues.

I hate pushing my bike on the flat - I would rather ride at 3mph in a crowded area, or through obstacles, than get off and push. (there is an argument that I take up less room, and thus can be less of a nuisance)
I always resent being made to walk e.g. at stations.

I have been known to push up properly steep climbs if I'm on a long ride, and might need the leg strength later.

Around here (the lost hinterlands of mid-west Wales) dismounted cyclists pushing their bike up a hill can be seen on a daily basis. In fact, I rarely see other kinds - a more racey one or two maybe once a fortnight.

There's no feeling of inadequacy expressed in the demeanour or manner of these pushing folk. It's what they've done for decades, I suspect.

One older lady (I'd guess in her late 70s or early 80s) goes the three miles up and down a very hilly road daily, to the village shop and back, buying for herself and some friends along the way. Her bike is an ancient heavyweight from the 1960s or 70s with a 3-speed Sturmey Archer gear; not working, I suspect. She dresses in old fashion warm wool clothing and large wellies. She has many bags of stuff and cycles only on the flat and downhill, getting off and pushing up anything like a hill.

Every day, in all weathers. A proper cyclist, we might say.

She ain't the only one. I saw 3 uphill bike pushers just yesterday. I used to stop and ask them if they needed help fixing summick; but they don't. It's just their style of using a bike and isn't unusual around here, where there are a lot of out-in-the-country folk who live on very little, have no car and enjoy life to the full. Mind, some of them go to the shop in their 60 year-old tractor instead.

I can see the bike-pushers having a chuckle when they see me in all my finery, pretending I'm still racing. Good ego deflators they are!

Cugel, out in the sticks.

It's only a bike ride, so why do we need to dress strangely for it? (racing excepted)

Because, once you go beyond a given duration, and/or a given level of effort, most ordinary clothes are blasted uncomfortable for cycling: sweaty, chaffing, dragging on the knees, not wind or waterproof enough in the right way, etc.

Personally, I wear ordinary clothes when riding my shopping bike (a slow old treader, on which I never go particularly far), and purpose-designed clothing to varying degrees when riding my “proper bike” (drop bars etc, on which I might ride several hours at a time), and every day I see people cycling while wearing a wide range of clothes, from their cumbersome work gear and safety boots, through to gossamer-like Lycra, most of them dressed appropriately for the level of effort they deploy, the odd one dressed far too heavily and looking as if they regret it, and the odd one looking a bit too sporty for their obvious capability.

I honestly don’t think there is a social norm dictating cycle-specific clothing, although there clearly is a bit of clothing one-upmanship in clubs, but that’s in the nature of sporty people: they are competitive.

geomannie wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 8:18am

IMHO, cycle up hills if you want, but equally there is no reason not to push.

I've always cycled up hills, until this summer - the 407' steep climb at the end of the regular 28 mile evening spin, is better of walked. The view across the post glacial plain, to the hills 5 miles away, a red squirrel often bouncing alongside, a badger crossing the road ahead, time to view the isolated, abandoned Victorian stately home, the abandoned moor crossing railway line - and helping an occasional snail across the road, stuck (Nb. A busy local road, passed by a 4/4 pickup and light van on two occasions this year)

I've always cycled up hills - the range of gears these days meant I could always get up a steep climb even though I was going very slowly but walking up a steep climb pushing a bike is very much slower.
Unfortunately gearing is only part of the equation and I find in my present condition that I'm sometimes forced to stop and either continue after a "breather" or walk

I've never judged people by their climbing ability you should do what you are happy with - cycling is supposed to be pleasurable - walking is good too but not so much in cycling shoes.

Carlton green wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 7:42am Whilst cycling we might find our activity unhelpfully constrained by attitudes and social norms that really have questionable value. What are your experiences of and responses to ‘unhelpful’ attitudes and social norms?

"Social Norms" can determine much of life. Just as individuals need a "proper" water bottle, individuals need "proper footwear, shirts, cars, phones or whatever", if they are to conform to social norms and be "normal"

There are "weird" people who cycle or walk to the supermarket, wear the "wrong" type of footwear, use old mineral water bottles as water bottles, ride a bicycle when they're adults, or whatever

Suppose it doesn't matter, as long as the approach an individual takes isn't illegal or offensive and the individual is happy with it. Though constraints can effect a cyclist, in respect to the attitudes of some motorists, constraints only constrain those individuals who succumb to being constrained )

geomannie wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 8:18am IMHO, cycle up hills if you want, but equally there is no reason not to push. I also hear the words of my old father in law, "all bicycles have at least has 3 gears, sitting, standing and walking". I remember that when the hill is too long.

I heard a variant on that as a teenager in the 1980s, when old clubmen would say "You only need three gears: one for riding, one for walking and one for climbing up trees."

As for pushing/walking up hills, sometimes, especially when heavily laden (eg camping) it's necessary. And sometimes I do it even when it's not necessary. On a long ride, it's good to use a slightly different set of muscles for a short while.

When I switched to lower gears it helped my get up steeper hills, but it also led to a cycle of loss of strength > lower gears > more loss > even lower gears. Walking is the same, if you keep giving up and walking as soon as the going gets tough it will result in decline, because it's pushing yourself to your limit occasionally that maintains your fitness. I've spent the last 10 years avoiding high intensity exercise because of my heart arrhythmia, and the effect has been one long downward spiral.

mattheus wrote: ↑20 Oct 2022, 9:36am I hate pushing my bike on the flat - I would rather ride at 3mph in a crowded area, or through obstacles, than get off and push. (there is an argument that I take up less room, and thus can be less of a nuisance)

I can stop a fully laden touring bike quicker with the brakes when I'm on it than if I'm walking with it at arms length to keep the pedals from getting wrapped around my ankles.

However, the main problem I have when wheeling the bike and holding it at the stem/bar clamp, is if the front wheel loses contact with the road even momentarily (eg bumping up/down a kerb), the pannier weight causes the bike to rotate about an axis passing through my hand and the point the rear wheel contacts the road. As it does this, the front wheel kicks into the air (and any nearby pedestrian), promptly followed by the bar twisting out of my grip, and the bike falling on the ground.

When I was much younger, before mountain bike type gearing was widely available, I strove to create a set up that gave me a set of low gears that would let me ride up anything. Having done that, and having joined a club I became known on club runs as a twiddler. I was never a great climber using what was then seen as a conventional range of gears so while other riders were dancing all over the road on the pedals I would twirl undramatically uphill. You have to bear in mind that this was Wales, and there were many such climbs.

I became a victim of my and other riders' expectations and would continue to climb while others got off and walked. No matter how steep or long a climb was, I considered that I had failed if I had to walk it. As time went by and I went farther afield, even riding alone with no one to witness my progress but the occasional sheep, I stuck to that principle. Over the years I met many others who had come to that way of thinking and it became something of a macho thing. We didn't admit to walking up hills, it was a heinous crime of which one never spoke.

When out on club runs with younger members I remember being surprised when the ride leader would make us get off and walk downhill when the road was steep and narrow, or had a muddy or loose surface. After many years of motorcycling it was ingrained in me that I ought to be able to ride up or down anything that could be described as a road, with or without an engine.

When I met my wife i was introduced to another point of view. She just didn't get on with low gears, and preferred to walk. In fact, even the sight of a hill would make her get off and start pushing. She used to disappear and I would find her collecting and eating blackberries or crab apples. For her, cycling wasn't about the bike. It made me realise how many potential cyclists might have been put off by the expectation that you should inflict pain on yourself by cycling up everything in sight rather than taking a more relaxed approach and accepting that sometimes pushing is just part of the journey, and you don't have to be forever obsessing about having the latest most expensive kit, with performance at the expense of everything else.

I'm still keen on low gearing, particularly since I got into riding recumbents, but being much older if not much wiser, if I occasionally have to walk part of a hill nowadays it's not such a big deal any more.