UK Politics

[Nearholmer]

This chart is the one to study.

This version is four years old, but the picture isn't hugely different now.

In very crude terms, what it tells you is that old people are net expensive to keep.

When you put that alongside changing population demographics, so roundly a fifth of the population being >65yo now, and that proportion increasing steadily, it’s very easy to see why there is a problem around all of this: ever-fewer working age people are having to keep ever-more pensioners.

We can weep and wail, and thrash about denying that there is a problem, or claiming that we are being victimised, but that won’t alter the facts.

To avoid absolutely crucifying youngsters and working age people, we need either more working age people, so as to spread the load, fewer old people (sounds potentially a bit brutal), or a reduction in the resources devoted to old people.

I have yet to hear anything from Mr Farfetched about how he would satisfy the conflicting needs of his two constituencies, the least well-off working people, and a horde of grumpy pensioners.

[al_yrpal]

Yes, I realise that but just lately its been wage inflation that has determined the pension increase. So, we have just been keeping up with all those 'public servants ' etc...

Al

Are you suggesting that pensions should increase faster than wages?

Yes, if possible, the way UK pensions are reckoned is a bit of a disgrace and doesn't compare well with similar countries.

I know quite a few people who are on almost minimal State pensions and really struggle. But because they have been careful and very frugal throughout their lives and saved carefully for their old age they dont qualify for benefits because of the level of their carefully accrued savings.

Other members of this family are bare faced liars who falsely claim benefits " because everybody around here (Middlesborough) is doing it!"

Al

[al_yrpal]

This chart is the one to study.

This version is four years old, but the picture isn't hugely different now.

In very crude terms, what it tells you is that old people are net expensive to keep.

When you put that alongside changing population demographics, so roundly a fifth of the population being >65yo now, and that proportion increasing steadily, it’s very easy to see why there is a problem around all of this: ever-fewer working age people are having to keep ever-more pensioners.

We can weep and wail, and thrash about denying that there is a problem, or claiming that we are being victimised, but that won’t alter the facts.

To avoid absolutely crucifying youngsters and working age people, we need either more working age people, so as to spread the load, fewer old people (sounds potentially a bit brutal), or a reduction in the resources devoted to old people.

I have yet to hear anything from Mr Farfetched about how he would satisfy the conflicting needs of his two constituencies, the least well-off working people, and a horde of grumpy pensioners.

Yes, true enough, we have to work that one out As life expectancy increases the pension age is being increased in the UK. In France that could cause a revolution! If we can effectively cut waste and fraud that would help too. The Elephant in the room is 'bonkers' government policies that waste billions. But, we will never effectively tackle these with the Labour Party running things.

Al

[Cugel]

I have yet to hear anything from Mr Farfetched about how he would satisfy the conflicting needs of his two constituencies, the least well-off working people, and a horde of grumpy pensioners.

Farwretch is only interested in satisfying the needs of himself and the oligarchs who finance his many & various destructions. On the other hand, he does gain political traction by satisfying the dark emotional needs of his potential voters, which dark emotions he is very good at stirring up and bringing out. Many mad ole pensioners seem impressed with his goose-wipe and poodle-juice.

Mind, so are many of the nastier younger element, despite already being othered into the underclass. Perhaps they hope for a position in Farwretch's brown shirts?

The fans of Farwretch's sneering views & spews are seemingly happy to sacrifice their socio-economic interests and wherewithals in order to assuage their lust to do extreme-othering. They seem unable to grasp that they too will become "others" once the yob has gained enough power to do a Trumpit, Little Ingurland style. Expensive-to-keep pensioners will soon find themselves on the nettle soup and boiled shoe-sole, for example.

**********
Being such a pensioner does make me fear the advent of a New Model Kleptocrat such as Farwretch. To be blunt, I'd be happy to give up a portion of the pension (as income tax) if it was used to rebalance the national books such that the young are encouraged and enabled to be productive and content rather than just debt-repaying ciphers or abandoned starvlings with the rotten teeth & rickets of pre-NHS days. I'd be very unhappy, though, to be taxed myself into starvling conditions if the tax (or the whole pension, more like) flowed only into some oligarch's already vast hoard of ill-gotten gains.

[roubaixtuesday]

Yes, I realise that but just lately its been wage inflation that has determined the pension increase. So, we have just been keeping up with all those 'public servants ' etc...

Al

Are you suggesting that pensions should increase faster than wages?

Yes, if possible, the way UK pensions are reckoned is a bit of a disgrace and doesn't compare well with similar countries.

Al

Wow. Wages are what paid for pensions. Pensioner numbers are increasing, so a greater proportion of wages will already go just to keep things at the current ratio.

As per the resolution foundation report above, incomes for working people have stagnated for two decades.

And you think they should go down even further?

[Nearholmer]

The Elephant in the room is 'bonkers' government policies that waste billions

Let’s see your cuts list then, Al.

To make enough savings elsewhere to cover for the net increase in pensioners per annum will be no easy task.

The net cost to the public purse of >65yo people seems to be rising at a rate of about £5bn/year (the lowest I can get it using a very conservative back of a fag packet calculation is £3.6bn/year, and in some recent years the increase has actually been as much as £7bn).

Obviously, any savings have to be in “ongoing cost lines”, not one-offs, and you have to find an additional set of £5bn worth every year.’

Label the elephants you intend to cull. Don’t do a “Reform administration at a county council” job, claiming that there are herds of elephants trampling about the place, without labeling any, then come back in six months and tell us: “Er, actually, we imagined all those elephants; when we went out to shoot them, there weren’t any.”

[roubaixtuesday]

The Elephant in the room is 'bonkers' government policies that waste billions

Let’s see your cuts list then, Al.

To make enough savings elsewhere to cover for the net increase in pensioners per annum will be no easy task.

The net cost to the public purse of >65yo people seems to be rising at a rate of about £5bn/year (the lowest I can get it using a very conservative back of a fag packet calculation is £3.6bn/year, and in some recent years the increase has actually been as much as £7bn).

Obviously, any savings have to be in “ongoing cost lines”, not one-offs, and you have to find an additional set of £5bn worth every year.’

Label the elephants you intend to cull. Don’t do a “Reform administration at a county council” job, claiming that there are herds of elephants trampling about the place, without labeling any, then come back in six months and tell us: “Er, actually, we imagined all those elephants; when we went out to shoot them, there weren’t any.”

"Waste" is just denial.

[cycle tramp]

The Elephant in the room is 'bonkers' government policies that waste billions. But, we will never effectively tackle these with the Labour Party running things.

Al

I think you'll find Thersea May was behind the implementation of hinckley c (30 something billion pounds), but I appreciate your thinking...
..if she had approved the wind farm it would be up and running by now

[al_yrpal]

Wind doesn't blow continuously so the lights go out... Happens every january. However the Minehead to Watchet tidal lagoon will be predictable.

Anyone who has worked in the Civil Service, Local Government, Academia or the NHS will be well aware of Buggins Turn and waste on a grand scale.

Al

[roubaixtuesday]

Anyone who has worked in the Civil Service, Local Government, Academia or the NHS will be well aware of Buggins Turn and waste on a grand scale.

Al

Pretending that choices don't have to be made because "waste" can be eliminated is magical thinking, a complete lack of political seriousness.

[al_yrpal]

Even Blair is now calling for barmy Ed to be curbed. Apparently Reform will target population growth, energy costs and BOE bank bailouts to cut the cost of living. Could be wildly popular.

Al

[roubaixtuesday]

Even Blair is now calling for barmy Ed to be curbed. Apparently Reform will target population growth, energy costs and BOE bank bailouts to cut the cost of living. Could be wildly popular.

Al

Apparently Reform will target...

population growth,

Cutting immigration further will add to the cost of living, not reduce it.

energy costs

How? Their policy seems to be increasing dependence on finite fossil fuels from unstable regimes?

and BOE bank bailouts

What does this even mean?

[Nearholmer]

So, is this to be a “one child policy” to limit population growth, or a “breed like rabbits policy” to promote it?

Maybe Farfetched should consult the Italians, who have had to go for the latter, because they are already at the place we will be in a few years in demographic terms.

[cycle tramp]

Anyone who has worked in the Civil Service, Local Government, Academia or the NHS will be well aware of Buggins Turn and waste on a grand scale.

Al

I did work in local government and during that time I have watched my co-workers attempt to cope with ever mounting pressures, I have seen my co workers develop health problems as a result and even in a few cases take their own lives. Reform themselves have come to power in a number of places, failed to find this 'waste on a grand scale' and are having to raise council tax like everyone else.

[cycle tramp]

Anyone who has worked in the Civil Service, Local Government, Academia or the NHS will be well aware of Buggins Turn and waste on a grand scale.

Al

Perhaps the very real reason costs for local government and NHS has increased is because society has simply stopped functioning at a basic level...
There was a time when everyone knew and looked after each other on their own street. One of the last calls I took was from a concerned neighbour who hadn't seen another neighbour in three weeks, there was an awful smell coming from the house and lots of flies on the curtains. And yes sadly that conclusion was right and a specialist team had to be hired by the council to clean everything up. That's the waste, that's the money pit and it's not through the council's fault but rather people not caring about other people...
..and it doesn't stop there, as people have stopped caring about their own health and that of their children.. as a result we're seeing a rise in obesity and poor health which somehow the NHS has to burden.. and all that f*€£wit farage bleats on about is immigration. Good, I say, perhaps we need some Jamaican spirit, some east European outlook on family ties and some Indian get up and go to actually re-energise this country.
Here's the damn news flash, if you want less taxes try investing in the community in which you live.
Everyone sees farage as a fascist - bit he's too damn lazy for that..he is a libertarian, but not for you.. only for himself and his band of poltical misfits and failures.