UK Politics

[Jdsk]

Can anyone show me where Labour promised not to raise uni fees, because I can’t remember it? Or indeed several of the other alleged promises that are currently being talked about,

The Daily Mail is running this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-ago.html

It's a stupid and fruitless style of discussion. Politicians have to make decisions based on what's in front of them. And that changes.

...

This decision is better than doing nothing but a lot more is needed on higher education.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

As was obviously going to be the case, this government is under sustained bombardment by interests which wish to pick over the bones of a de-democratised UK, or at least to prove once and for all that social democracy can’t work. The list of such interests is long and formidable, and the various “soft underbellies” that they can exploit are rather too big and too soft for comfort …….. the cultivated naivety of large swathes of the population being the biggest and softest, IMO.

[mjr]

That implies that it isn't possible to plan. But it is. If you choose to keep the assets as personal estate until you die then inheritance tax is payable. But many other options are available. As is professional advice.

Interesting idea. Assets in a farm is in property and equipment mostly. Plan your way out of that, it would be interesting to know how.

Pass it on to the family, form a partnership, company or trust. Insure against inheritance tax.

And structure the company so that the founder remains a "person with significant control" for life even after financial ownership has been passed on. That's what's going on when you see the little "Lower Bogginton Farms Ltd" signs appear by the gates. It's quite popular with the "modern rich" farm owners around here. They are not the families who actually farm. They bought family farms out, mostly since 1980, decades before Starmer got elected as even an MP. The right didn't care about family farms then and doesn't now. This is a façade on tax breaks for fat cats.

[toontra]

It is all extra cost and paperwork though.
Solicitors benefit (again).
The State gains very little.

The 7 year gift works I guess but don't have an accident or a heart attack.
Or your family lose more than you.
A lottery where none existed before.

This all applies to families who don't have a farm.

Well indeed - join the masses.

There may be certain extenuating circumstances that specifically affect farm estates, but in general I fail to see why the rest of us should effectively subsidise wealthy farmers. I presume it's a hark back to days (not that long ago!) when landed gentry made the rules.

We recently had to pay a substantial sum in IHT on our parent's estate. Unfortunately they weren't farmers.

[cycle tramp]

Can anyone show me where Labour promised not to raise uni fees, because I can’t remember it? Or indeed several of the other alleged promises that are currently being talked about,

As if by magic (its in the middle somewhere)

https://www.bigissue.com/news/politics/ ... on-u-turn/

The one about scrapping tuition fees has even been signed by him....

[cycle tramp]

It is all extra cost and paperwork though.
Solicitors benefit (again).
The State gains very little.

The 7 year gift works I guess but don't have an accident or a heart attack.
Or your family lose more than you.
A lottery where none existed before.

This all applies to families who don't have a farm.

Well indeed - join the masses.

There may be certain extenuating circumstances that specifically affect farm estates, but in general I fail to see why the rest of us should effectively subsidise wealthy farmers. I presume it's a hark back to days (not that long ago!) when landed gentry made the rules.

We recently had to pay a substantial sum in IHT on our parent's estate. Unfortunately they weren't farmers.

Farming is the only 'industry' for which the economics of the given enterprise aren't known. Last year a number of turkey farms in the North were raising live turkeys to be sold 'fresh' for Christmas... which was fine, until bird flu struck the UK leaving them with a potential decision of keeping them alive, with the risk of defra killing the lot of them if bird flu cropped up in a 10 mile radius or whatever, or sending them to slaughter long before Christmas and perhaps making a loss - as frozen turkeys have to compete with often cheaper imports. Even potato farmers have been known to financially suffer in very wet weather, when potatoes are more likely to develop blight or simply rot in the fields..

..if farming was such an easy way to earn money, why isn't everyone doing it? The answer is its not, it's hard work, with very little pay, with a fair degree of risk involved, and when livestock and defra mix, it will often end in fair amount of heart ache.

Anyone know what the suicide rate is for farmers? Have a guess.

So while those of us with fixed salary jobs have a go at farmers enjoying a possible tax break, shall we also consider the amount of farm injuries which also occur?

[mattheus]

Can anyone show me where Labour promised not to raise uni fees, because I can’t remember it? Or indeed several of the other alleged promises that are currently being talked about,

As if by magic (its in the middle somewhere)

https://www.bigissue.com/news/politics/ ... on-u-turn/

The one about scrapping tuition fees has even been signed by him....

Ah, you mean the one in the 2020 Labour leadership contest?

[roubaixtuesday]

This all applies to families who don't have a farm.

Well indeed - join the masses.

There may be certain extenuating circumstances that specifically affect farm estates, but in general I fail to see why the rest of us should effectively subsidise wealthy farmers. I presume it's a hark back to days (not that long ago!) when landed gentry made the rules.

We recently had to pay a substantial sum in IHT on our parent's estate. Unfortunately they weren't farmers.

Farming is the only 'industry' for which the economics of the given enterprise aren't known. Last year a number of turkey farms in the North were raising live turkeys to be sold 'fresh' for Christmas... which was fine, until bird flu struck leaving them with a potential decision of keeping them alive, with the risk of defeat killing the lot of them if bird flu cropped up in a 10 mile radius or whatever, or sending them to slaughter long before Christmas and perhaps making a loss. Even potato farmers have been known to financially suffer in very wet weather, when potatoes are more likely to develop blight or simply rot in the fields..

..if farming was such an easy way to earn money, why isn't everyone doing it? The answer is its not, it's hard work, eith very little pay, with a fair degree of risk involved, and when livestock and defra mix, it will often end in fair amount of heart ache. Anyone know what the suicide rate is for farmers? Have a guess.

re the emboldened, this is clearly not true.

All businesses have risk and uncertainty. Indeed, for listed companies it's a legal requirement to document them in accounts.

[mattheus]

Anyone know what the suicide rate is for farmers? Have a guess.

So while those of us with fixed salary jobs have a go at farmers enjoying a possible tax break, shall we also consider the amount of farm injuries which also occur?

Yes.

Poor old James Dyson ...

[toontra]

Farming is the only 'industry' for which the economics of the given enterprise aren't known. Last year a number of turkey farms in the North were raising live turkeys to be sold 'fresh' for Christmas... which was fine, until bird flu struck the UK leaving them with a potential decision of keeping them alive, with the risk of defra killing the lot of them if bird flu cropped up in a 10 mile radius or whatever, or sending them to slaughter long before Christmas and perhaps making a loss - as frozen turkeys have to compete with often cheaper imports. Even potato farmers have been known to financially suffer in very wet weather, when potatoes are more likely to develop blight or simply rot in the fields..

..if farming was such an easy way to earn money, why isn't everyone doing it? The answer is its not, it's hard work, with very little pay, with a fair degree of risk involved, and when livestock and defra mix, it will often end in fair amount of heart ache.

Anyone know what the suicide rate is for farmers? Have a guess.

So while those of us with fixed salary jobs have a go at farmers enjoying a possible tax break, shall we also consider the amount of farm injuries which also occur?

What does any of that have to do with inheritance tax?

Many businesses, particularly small & medium, are faced with all manner of risk and uncertainly - market trends, changes in regulations, Brexit, new technology, AI, etc.

[Nearholmer]

..if farming was such an easy way to earn money, why isn't everyone doing it

Well, there are lots of reasons, but the most blindingly obvious one is that it has a very high entry cost, the up-front investment in land. A farm costs rather more than a van and set of plumbing tools, or even all the initial costs sunk in becoming a lawyer or a doctor.

Anyway, it’s possible to be in favour of having a good farming sector in the UK, and to believe that long-term stewardship of farms by families might be in the best interests of the land, and hence all of us, without getting caught-up in some smokescreen of blut und boden mysticism, behind which investment landholders, and agribusinesses can swan about unchallenged by normal obligations to society.

Random anecdote: the estate near where I live that seems to be managed in the most society-focused way isn’t a family-owned one, it is, rather strangely, a venture capital job, where the money men have decided that being community-focused makes good business …… it’s a weird case that challenges my own prejudices!

[cycle tramp]

4 replies and not one about the suicide rate in farming, nor the industrial accidents figures

[Nearholmer]

So, we continue to give the same tax relief as up to now: how the dickens will that reduce suicides, or industrial accidents, which have presumably been happening under that old regime up to now? You’re going to have to explain this to me.

This is worth a scan: https://committees.parliament.uk/writte ... d%20income.

There are also studies which point in an opposite direction BTW, suggesting that the physicality, being outdoors, etc involved in farming are net beneficial to health, so it is all bit complicated.

[roubaixtuesday]

4 replies and not one about the suicide rate in farming, nor the industrial accidents figures

You posted three irrelevant things, and now you're complaining that only one of them has been addressed?

Construction has a high accident rate. Should construction companies be free from IHT?

[pete75]

..if you say you will do one thing before you are elected and then do another.. not only will people lose faith in that party but they will lose faith in democracy itself...

You mean like your bloody Boris promised levelling up for deprived northern cities and then did damn all about it?