Giving up alcohol

[Dingdong]

It's not that difficult (given the sheer variety of new laws enacted in the last ten years) to find yourself in the criminal justice system, for the slightest of misdemeanors. Most of these, I find are alcohol, not drug related. When, for instance did you last see a violent heroin addict? They do tend to be on the whole, fairly well sedated. You could argue, from statistical analysis that alcoholics do much more harm to society than any committed, long term heroin/methadone/cocaine user.

I've been supportive of much of the stuff you've posted on the subject but having ran a drug / acquisitive crime squad for many years I'm just going to offer up the below reference heroin use. If 29 million people drink, naturally more will find themselves in the system percentage wise but the figures in relation to heroin / crack use are still quite staggering considering the numbers. Most of the criminals we dealt with (acquisitive crime) had a drug rather than alcohol addition.

There are more than 300,000 heroin and crack addicts in England who, between them, are responsible for nearly half of all burglaries, robberies and other acquisitive crime.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... save-lives

And that's precisely my argument. If you make the acquisition and distribution of current class A substances a legal agreement, perhaps prescribed in the NHS at point of need, then the associated, long established crime is negated, if not overnight, but essentially in the short term.

Criminals will have to find other sources of easy income, which may not be that simple. With the introduction of Disability Living Allowance in England and Wales with the last labour government, recorded crime was reduced a staggering 45% in only two years.

If there is no longer a lucrative illegal drug trade in the UK, then those currently involved in it will either have to find legitimate employment, social welfare scams (the most likely outcome) or another illegal source of income.

Win win imho.

[Carlton green]

I wonder about the effect of alcohol as a gateway ‘drug’ to other currently illegal drugs? Whilst few (in percentage terms) take that gateway and the vast majority stick to having a bit of wine or beer, etc., would the population of illegal drug users be diminished if that gateway had not been open to them?

Talk of legalising drugs is perhaps a pragmatic way forward and it’s success or not is very much a matter of thoughtful and well regulated implementation. Of course we have such a system already in place - and long established too - with alcohol sales. That system’s perfect isn’t it …

Maybe I don’t live in the real world and maybe I should get out more (whatever that means). Whilst walking the dog this morning and chatting to friends - mostly older folk without bags of money - my thoughts drifted to my youth and folk I knew then. They were bright lads but they spent their money and evenings in the Pub and hence didn’t do well at Technical College - if you don’t put the work in then you fail exams. Alcohol robbed those lads of a better future. My thoughts then went onto the experiences of a young woman I know who was traumatised by the experiences of a classmate. The class mate, a pretty girl, got drinking with two lads she knew at an end of term party. The booze went to the Lad’s heads and they raped her … alcohol fuelled stuff happens and that includes violence against women.

[horizon]

Not sure a weekend away cycling/hiking in the van would be the same without a few tipples.

No, it would be a lot better. Possibly. Certainly I would be happier myself if you didn't drink while camping. Having said that, I don't have a moral objection to alcohol and agree with most others that less is more but it doesn't have to be zero.

I don't generally drink so for me the idea of a few cans etc is quite strange. And of course the non-alcohol drinker can also be very sensitive to the effects of alcohol on those who do drink - it is we very often who suffer the sleepless or interrupted nights from the noise of those who do. I would love there to be alcohol-free campsites.

However, one thing I am interested in is whether alcohol provides a palliative for cold, lonely or uncomfortable conditions (or even socially challenging). If so, then perhaps the experience would be more enriching if the alcohol was left out. Ironically I get the impression that those who arrive with the most comfort and protection and with other people (i.e. in vehicles) also consume the most alcohol. Do cycle campers drink alcohol or just use it in the Trangia?

But before I start to sound unbearably moralistic, I want to say that I think the OP raised some interesting and indeed very honest questions and that has prompted my respect.

[ossie]

It's not that difficult (given the sheer variety of new laws enacted in the last ten years) to find yourself in the criminal justice system, for the slightest of misdemeanors. Most of these, I find are alcohol, not drug related. When, for instance did you last see a violent heroin addict? They do tend to be on the whole, fairly well sedated. You could argue, from statistical analysis that alcoholics do much more harm to society than any committed, long term heroin/methadone/cocaine user.

I've been supportive of much of the stuff you've posted on the subject but having ran a drug / acquisitive crime squad for many years I'm just going to offer up the below reference heroin use. If 29 million people drink, naturally more will find themselves in the system percentage wise but the figures in relation to heroin / crack use are still quite staggering considering the numbers. Most of the criminals we dealt with (acquisitive crime) had a drug rather than alcohol addition.

There are more than 300,000 heroin and crack addicts in England who, between them, are responsible for nearly half of all burglaries, robberies and other acquisitive crime.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... save-lives

And that's precisely my argument. If you make the acquisition and distribution of current class A substances a legal agreement, perhaps prescribed in the NHS at point of need, then the associated, long established crime is negated, if not overnight, but essentially in the short term.

Criminals will have to find other sources of easy income, which may not be that simple. With the introduction of Disability Living Allowance in England and Wales with the last labour government, recorded crime was reduced a staggering 45% in only two years.

If there is no longer a lucrative illegal drug trade in the UK, then those currently involved in it will either have to find legitimate employment, social welfare scams (the most likely outcome) or another illegal source of income.

Win win imho.

Recorded Crime did not go down 45 percent with the introduction of the disability allowance... absolute nonsense It came in in 92....look up recorded crime figures on the govt website...it actually went up for the following few years.

[ANTONISH]

My thoughts then went onto the experiences of a young woman I know who was traumatised by the experiences of a classmate. The class mate, a pretty girl, got drinking with two lads she knew at an end of term party. The booze went to the Lad’s heads and they raped her … alcohol fuelled stuff happens and that includes violence against women.

Being drunk doesn't mean you lose all moral compass. Rape is a crime and the "lads" would have been aware of that.

As for alcohol being a gateway drug - when I was a heavy drinker in the sixties I was suffering from a cold and was offered amphetamines which I was told would relieve the symptoms - they seemed to work.
Like a lot of people in the sixties I became a regular ampetamine user - plus I continued with alcohol.
Oddly enough I was warned by a heavy smoker of the perils of drug use.
Eventually I ceased to take amphetamines - just stopped using them - and I would be described these days as a moderate drinker.

[Rock bus]

Blimey this thread has exploded since my original post!
Anyhow, I’m cutting it out for November and will then make a decision for the festival period!

[PedallingSquares]

Blimey this thread has exploded since my original post!
Anyhow, I’m cutting it out for November and will then make a decision for the festival period!

I decided to stop for 6 months on Xmas day 2019 and ended up doing 2 1/2 years.I'm back on it now but nowhere near as much as I used to

[Rock bus]

I decided to stop for 6 months on Xmas day 2019 and ended up doing 2 1/2 years.I'm back on it now but nowhere near as much as I used to
[/quote]

That’s interesting why did you re start? It’s going fine for me so far and I’m already thinking I might try a Xmas alcohol free to see what that is like. But on other hand lucky enough to get Glastonbury tickets today and already thinking I can’t imagine not having few drinks there

[PedallingSquares]

That’s interesting why did you re start? It’s going fine for me so far and I’m already thinking I might try a Xmas alcohol free to see what that is like. But on other hand lucky enough to get Glastonbury tickets today and already thinking I can’t imagine not having few drinks there

It was always just a sabbatical for me.I've been drinking since the early 80s and I decided that I was drinking far too much so I decided to stop for a while.I,like MickF,like a couple of pints when out with my dog and started in the Summer when we had all that nice weather.You can't beat being outside in a beer garden in nice weather
In the house wasn't a problem as I found some very good AF beers but pubs generally only have AF Lager which is too fizzy.I don't drink soft drinks either so for me a visit to a pub means a good old pint

[Mick F]

Nice two mile walk with the dog today, and called in at the Rising Sun for two pints of Dartmoor Legend.
Dog happy, and I'm happy too.

[Dingdong]

Not sure a weekend away cycling/hiking in the van would be the same without a few tipples.

Do cycle campers drink alcohol or just use it in the Trangia?

But before I start to sound unbearably moralistic, I want to say that I think the OP raised some interesting and indeed very honest questions and that has prompted my respect.

I generally like a good blow out when I'm off cycle camping (I normally wild camp), so when we get near our destination I'll Probably but a bottle of wine and some cans to take in. We once took two live lobsters on the train in a carrier bag, this was back in the day when you could get a good sized lobster for a tenner! Caused quite a sensation at the camp site when we boiled them up, but hey, your only live once!

[pete75]

Not sure a weekend away cycling/hiking in the van would be the same without a few tipples.

Do cycle campers drink alcohol or just use it in the Trangia?

But before I start to sound unbearably moralistic, I want to say that I think the OP raised some interesting and indeed very honest questions and that has prompted my respect.

I generally like a good blow out when I'm off cycle camping (I normally wild camp), so when we get near our destination I'll Probably but a bottle of wine and some cans to take in. We once took two live lobsters on the train in a carrier bag, this was back in the day when you could get a good sized lobster for a tenner! Caused quite a sensation at the camp site when we boiled them up, but hey, your only live once!

Not if you're a Hindu.

[Mick F]

I'm going to be re-incarnated.
Not Hindu though!

I'm coming back as a grisly bear.
I would be the top of the food-chain, a protected species, and gorge myself on fruit and berries and salmon, and then then sleep all winter.
What's not to like?

[thirdcrank]

I'm going to be re-incarnated.
Not Hindu though!

I'm coming back as a grisly bear.
I would be the top of the food-chain, a protected species, and gorge myself on fruit and berries and salmon, and then then sleep all winter.
What's not to like? :D

Any plans for lavatory arrangements?

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm going to be re-incarnated.
Not Hindu though!

I'm coming back as a grisly bear.
I would be the top of the food-chain, a protected species, and gorge myself on fruit and berries and salmon, and then then sleep all winter.
What's not to like?

Any plans for lavatory arrangements?