Giving up alcohol

[Nearholmer]

Imagine for a moment that alcohol is a self-prescribed medicine.

What ailment are you taking this medicine to overcome?

Consider the possibility that the ailment might be cured or relieved by other means.

[foxyrider]

I have at different times, gone years without beer, wine or spirits, i've never been a regular drinker, unless you count my Uni days when i maybe got through five pints some weeks. I don't need it to function but i've had friends who are or have been that dependant.

I probably drink most on my hols, usually a pint with dinner but i'd be as happy with lemonade. Sometimes i just fancy a beer in the same way i might fancy chocolate or a bacon sarnie.

If you want to go teetotal its probably easiest to start when there is less temptation, i've often started 'dry' from New Year, the first drink has often been a 'reward' after a big ride after Easter then maybe nothing more until the 'social season' in the autumn, its my choice, i could drink tea or juice but sometimes i just prefer a beer.

[Bmblbzzz]

The very widespread acceptability of the misnamed "moderate" drinking runs throughout society, and contributes to a culture of misery, disease, death and violence. Most people's "moderate" alcohol consumption is anything but, which they would quickly discover if they took the time to accurately record their consumption.

Over consumption of alcohol is endemic, but is not recognised. Too many people declare that they "don't have a problem", or "just enjoy a little social drinking". They are deluding themselves. They are addicted to a drug. And they are fooling themselves if they don't think it is doing them harm.

That’s pretty hard hitting if, I believe, not without some validity. It is my belief that alcohol is a drug and that drugs should (only) be used both with care and some informed caution. My stance is outlined in my earlier post - it is literally years since I had anything alcoholic and I when I do consume then it’s minimal.

Whilst not questioning the damage that alcohol sometimes does do I’ve met very many people, some being very able and high functioning, for whom having a few units or even a skinful is actually helpful to them in terms of stress relief and social interaction - they also don’t do stupid and / or antisocial acts (that have noticeably bad consequences) whilst under the influence. Few things in life are actually clear cut and sometimes the consequences of not doing something outweigh the consequences of doing whatever the alternatives is/was. Without wishing to encourage alcohol consumption some ‘pathetic’ drinkers - particular individuals - make the rest of us look even more insignificant and tiny.

In other words these people have become, to an extent and in certain circumstances, alcohol dependent. They are no longer purely 'social' drinkers. Whether this is necessarily a problem for them or for anyone else is probably going to depend on each case, not to mention the availability of alcohol.

[CarnivoreAI]

Imagine for a moment that alcohol is a self-prescribed medicine.

What ailment are you taking this medicine to overcome?

Consider the possibility that the ailment might be cured or relieved by other means.

That's a great question Nearholmer.
I have been sober 2 years now and it can be difficult to remember why, but your post really does help.

[Bmblbzzz]

Intemperate words in favour of temperance.

It's like a Smiths song!

[Carlton green]

The very widespread acceptability of the misnamed "moderate" drinking runs throughout society, and contributes to a culture of misery, disease, death and violence. Most people's "moderate" alcohol consumption is anything but, which they would quickly discover if they took the time to accurately record their consumption.

Over consumption of alcohol is endemic, but is not recognised. Too many people declare that they "don't have a problem", or "just enjoy a little social drinking". They are deluding themselves. They are addicted to a drug. And they are fooling themselves if they don't think it is doing them harm.

That’s pretty hard hitting if, I believe, not without some validity. It is my belief that alcohol is a drug and that drugs should (only) be used both with care and some informed caution. My stance is outlined in my earlier post - it is literally years since I had anything alcoholic and I when I do consume then it’s minimal.

Whilst not questioning the damage that alcohol sometimes does do I’ve met very many people, some being very able and high functioning, for whom having a few units or even a skinful is actually helpful to them in terms of stress relief and social interaction - they also don’t do stupid and / or antisocial acts (that have noticeably bad consequences) whilst under the influence. Few things in life are actually clear cut and sometimes the consequences of not doing something outweigh the consequences of doing whatever the alternatives is/was. Without wishing to encourage alcohol consumption some drinkers - particular individuals - make the rest of us look even more insignificant and tiny.

In other words these people have become, to an extent and in certain circumstances, alcohol dependent. They are no longer purely 'social' drinkers. Whether this is necessarily a problem for them or for anyone else is probably going to depend on each case, not to mention the availability of alcohol.

No. ‘Helpful’ does not mean ‘dependant’, but I wouldn’t disagree that there are alcohol dependent people. The degree to which people need and use anything varies widely. By way of example I don’t depend on my local Co-op for food, I do use my Co-op but also have and use less convenient alternatives to that store. Though they might be associated ‘dependence’ and ‘assistance’ are two different things.

[Cugel]

That’s pretty hard hitting if, I believe, not without some validity. It is my belief that alcohol is a drug and that drugs should (only) be used both with care and some informed caution. My stance is outlined in my earlier post - it is literally years since I had anything alcoholic and I when I do consume then it’s minimal.

Whilst not questioning the damage that alcohol sometimes does do I’ve met very many people, some being very able and high functioning, for whom having a few units or even a skinful is actually helpful to them in terms of stress relief and social interaction - they also don’t do stupid and / or antisocial acts (that have noticeably bad consequences) whilst under the influence. Few things in life are actually clear cut and sometimes the consequences of not doing something outweigh the consequences of doing whatever the alternatives is/was. Without wishing to encourage alcohol consumption some drinkers - particular individuals - make the rest of us look even more insignificant and tiny.

In other words these people have become, to an extent and in certain circumstances, alcohol dependent. They are no longer purely 'social' drinkers. Whether this is necessarily a problem for them or for anyone else is probably going to depend on each case, not to mention the availability of alcohol.

No. ‘Helpful’ does not mean ‘dependant’, but I wouldn’t disagree that there are alcohol dependent people. The degree to which people need and use anything varies widely. By way of example I don’t depend on my local Co-op for food, I do use my Co-op but also have and use less convenient alternatives to that store. Though they might be associated ‘dependence’ and ‘assistance’ are two different things.

Rationalisations after the fact - always a useful technique for distracting from the illogic or even utter stupidity of this proposition or that justifying self and other-harming behaviours. (See car culture yatter for numerous examples).

"Alcohol as a medicine" is a well-worn example of such an afterwards-rationalisation, so has many equally well-worn responses demonstrating that it's more or less .... wrong, not least because the various illnesses caused by supping grog, especially excessively, will far outweigh the supposed benefits of getting p!$$ed morning, noon and night. And let us not forget that there are many alternative modes for dealing with difficulties of "stress and social interaction".

Let us not forget either the commonplace observation that "often, less is more".

Cugel

[Bmblbzzz]

That’s pretty hard hitting if, I believe, not without some validity. It is my belief that alcohol is a drug and that drugs should (only) be used both with care and some informed caution. My stance is outlined in my earlier post - it is literally years since I had anything alcoholic and I when I do consume then it’s minimal.

Whilst not questioning the damage that alcohol sometimes does do I’ve met very many people, some being very able and high functioning, for whom having a few units or even a skinful is actually helpful to them in terms of stress relief and social interaction - they also don’t do stupid and / or antisocial acts (that have noticeably bad consequences) whilst under the influence. Few things in life are actually clear cut and sometimes the consequences of not doing something outweigh the consequences of doing whatever the alternatives is/was. Without wishing to encourage alcohol consumption some drinkers - particular individuals - make the rest of us look even more insignificant and tiny.

In other words these people have become, to an extent and in certain circumstances, alcohol dependent. They are no longer purely 'social' drinkers. Whether this is necessarily a problem for them or for anyone else is probably going to depend on each case, not to mention the availability of alcohol.

No. ‘Helpful’ does not mean ‘dependant’, but I wouldn’t disagree that there are alcohol dependent people. The degree to which people need and use anything varies widely. By way of example I don’t depend on my local Co-op for food, I do use my Co-op but also have and use less convenient alternatives to that store. Though they might be associated ‘dependence’ and ‘assistance’ are two different things.

"Dependent in certain circumstances." If someone is routinely using substance X in situation Y, they can certainly be said to be dependent on it in those circumstances. This in itself does not have to be a bad thing; for instance, many people are dependent on coffee to get going in the morning.

[Pebble]

The CAGE question presented earlier with Drinking substituted for Cycling

The CAGE questionnaire asks the following questions:

1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your cycling?
yes, I often feel I should cut down or even give up for a while

2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your cycling?
Yes, my wife says I spend far too much time out on the bike

3. Have you ever felt Guilty about cycling?
Yes, Lots of other things I should be getting on with, but just can't seem to stop.

4. Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?
I can sometimes feel a bit down if I'm not knocking the miles out.

[Jdsk]

The CAGE question presented earlier with Drinking substituted for Cycling

The CAGE questionnaire asks the following questions:

1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your cycling?
yes, I often feel I should cut down or even give up for a while

2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your cycling?
Yes, my wife says I spend far too much time out on the bike

3. Have you ever felt Guilty about cycling?
Yes, Lots of other things I should be getting on with, but just can't seem to stop.

4. Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?
I can sometimes feel a bit down if I'm not knocking the miles out.

Neat. And illustrates that dependence is different from harm.

Jonathan

[sjs]

The CAGE question presented earlier with Drinking substituted for Cycling

The CAGE questionnaire asks the following questions:

1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your cycling?
yes, I often feel I should cut down or even give up for a while

2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your cycling?
Yes, my wife says I spend far too much time out on the bike

3. Have you ever felt Guilty about cycling?
Yes, Lots of other things I should be getting on with, but just can't seem to stop.

4. Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?
I can sometimes feel a bit down if I'm not knocking the miles out.

Neat. And illustrates that dependence is different from harm.

Jonathan

Tell that to Pebble's wife!

[Mick F]

A mate of mine is in Derriford Hospital, Plymouth at the moment.
Admitted yesterday evening.

Pancreatitis.
Caused by gall stones ................. or alcohol .............. and he is a regular and an all-day heavy constant drinker.

[Dingdong]

I drink almost everyday. I enjoy the taste of wine and beer, but not so much the effect, so you'll never find me inebriated. The last time I was really drunk was 20 years ago at a wedding in Hampstead. I put that down to an amazing variety of absolutely free alcohol, which lasted nearly two days.

I don't particularly like being drunk, but I do like a drink. The two are not immediately connected. I probably drink twice the recommended units for the week. But then again I probably eat twice as much cheese and dairy as I ought to. I may damage my health in the long term, on the other hand it might have absolutely no effect. I'm willing to take that risk for the pleasure I gain in the here and now. My father drank ten pints a night until he wasn't able to get to the pub anymore. This wasn't until his 77th year. He lived till he was 94, and said he never regretted anything. He was the life and soul of every party we ever went to

I can't abide people who condemn other people's vices (as if they didn't have any of their own!). Everyone has vices, and things they over indulge in, or would rather no one else knew about. Anyone who says they don't is a bare faced liar!

[ossie]

A mate of mine is in Derriford Hospital, Plymouth at the moment.
Admitted yesterday evening.

Pancreatitis.
Caused by gall stones ................. or alcohol .............. and he is a regular and an all-day heavy constant drinker.

I wonder if that's his wake up call ?

[Cugel]

I can't abide people who condemn other people's vices (as if they didn't have any of their own!). Everyone has vices, and things they over indulge in, or would rather no one else knew about. Anyone who says they don't is a bare faced liar!

Doesn't it depend on the vice? I don't mind if you pick your nose in public and eat it, as it harms no one else. If you're a fighting foul-mouthed drunk, so uninhibited by the grog you supped that you grope the ladies and kick the dogs before going home to beat the wife and kids then I'll be giving you a reet good condemning.

Would you like a list of my own vices? You can consider which of them to tolerate and which to condemn, which is always a pleasurable pursuit, as well as being an insight into your own likely lacks and licensions.

Before the advent of the rozzer & beak, communities policed themselves largely by the mechanism of shaming, which was the wide condemnation of infamous acts and the persons committing them. It's actually rather more effective than rozzers & beaks in many cases where nasty folk go about doing harms to all and sundry.

Cugel