Waterproof Cycling Jacket

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
peetee
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by peetee »

rogerzilla wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 8:03am If you run on the hot side, like I do, there is no such thing as a jacket that keeps you dry. You can keep the rain out, but you'll still be soaked. Gore-Tex is for people who barely sweat, or walkers.
I am like this. I have had a couple Goretex jackets which proved disappointing.
I’m currently trying an Endura Pro SL which has been my best choice so far. It’s medium weight and feels thicker and less flexible than the Goretex items but has large underarm zipped vents so keeps me cooler. It’s currently 12 degrees C here on average and I can sustain moderate cycling efforts and occasional hard climbs without feeling ‘boil in the bag’.
The only odd thing about the jacket is the three unprotected rear pockets that would fill with rain had Endura not put drain holes in the bottom!
Last edited by peetee on 16 Nov 2022, 9:09am, edited 1 time in total.
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freiston
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by freiston »

I am like this too - can get quite damp when it's not raining - especially when wearing a winter jacket with windproof front arm and torso panels. In downpours/persistent rain, I usually wear a cape but when the precipitation is inconsistent and not heavy and the temperatures are not warm, (the sort of weather where you can't quite get away with drying out as you go), I like my Altura Varium jacket - it feels like a robust softshell but is waterproof and has pit-zips (which I find invaluable). I don't know what the material is but it is rather good.

If ever that jacket needs replacing, I will not know what to replace it with - Altura dropped it from their range some years ago. If anyone knows if Altura's current range has a Varium equivalent, I'd like to know - or even if there's an equivalent from another label.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
mattheus
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by mattheus »

"soft shell": there's a phrase you don't hear so much now!

5 (?) years ago they were THE marketing thing - for walking and cycling. Perhaps everyone's bought one now, so demand has died back?
thirdcrank
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by thirdcrank »

mattheus wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 8:52am "soft shell": there's a phrase you don't hear so much now!

5 (?) years ago they were THE marketing thing - for walking and cycling. Perhaps everyone's bought one now, so demand has died back?
Once upon a time, Soft Shell was a Goretex brand - garments made from a fabric with no waterproof qualities, but with a membrane to keep out the wind . The label "Windstopper" was a clue The soft shell description was soon being applied willy-nilly to all manner of garments. (I must have posted before that I picked up a real bargain at the Musto outlet in York when they had some Goretex jackets with "Softshell" embroidered on the sleeve. It's the best general purpose rain jacket I have, but much too heavy for cycling.)
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pjclinch
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by pjclinch »

mattheus wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 8:52am "soft shell": there's a phrase you don't hear so much now!

5 (?) years ago they were THE marketing thing - for walking and cycling. Perhaps everyone's bought one now, so demand has died back?
It's like a lot of Big New Things... it's trumpeted as a Big New Thing by marketing departments and you come back a few years later and while it hasn't taken over the world it has a decent chunk of market share and has been absorbed in to the mainstream and is thus easy to find if you look for it. If I look on the product filters of a lot of outdoor suppliers it's there, present and correct. And it was there long before the term was invented: the Rohan breeks I bought in the 1980s would fit most ideas of what softshell is.

A bigger issue with "soft shell" is it's a vague marketing term meaning different things to different marketing departments, and that's not really a good basis for choosing something. If I want something windproof but not waterproof there's a good chance what I want is a soft shell... but if Brand X has decided "soft shell" means stretchy and insulated that's not necessarily what I want.

My definition is it's something that will keep out wind and a bit of dreich but won't do prolonged and/or heavy rain and is much more breathable than a hard shell. But that's not necessarily what you'll get if you go to Brand X and say "let's see your soft shell stuff".

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pjclinch
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by pjclinch »

thirdcrank wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 10:12am
Once upon a time, Soft Shell was a Goretex brand - garments made from a fabric with no waterproof qualities, but with a membrane to keep out the wind . The label "Windstopper" was a clue The soft shell description was soon being applied willy-nilly to all manner of garments. (I must have posted before that I picked up a real bargain at the Musto outlet in York when they had some Goretex jackets with "Softshell" embroidered on the sleeve. It's the best general purpose rain jacket I have, but much too heavy for cycling.)
My memory is the term came from elsewhere (it's notable it doesn't seem to be trademarked) and Gore jumped on the bandwagon. Even though Windstopper is generally considered "soft shell", the original "Goretex Softshell" was (again IIRC) standard Goretex with a fleece backer, so it was by most definitions an insulated hard shell... but there was a bandwagon to be jumped on and various folk got the idea that "soft" referred to the feel as opposed to its waterproofing being distinctly lower than a hard shell.

Another thing is that Windstopper is actually waterproof. It's Goretex Mk 1, in fact, but the reason that was deprecated as a waterproof was if it got contaminated it tended to leak, so Mk 2 and on had a very thin PU smear to keep it clean which stopped it leaking but did reduce the breathability quite a bit. Since Windstopper isn't being relied on to keep folk dry the garments don't have the seams taped either, so they will leak through the needle holes in those.
The practical upshot is that Windstopper and similar membrane-based (e.g. Polartec Winbloc) soft shell fabrics are much better at keeping rain out than those without a membrane and more windproof, but the flip side is they're relatively less breathable and if they do get wet through take forever and a day to dry.

Moral of the story remains set out your requirements in terms of tangible, measurable things (e.g., is it windproof?, is it (un)insulated?, is it fast drying? etc.) and choose according to those, and if the answer is a garment that happens to be a "soft shell", for whatever marketing definition that is, then that doesn't really matter.

Pete.
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james01
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by james01 »

rogerzilla wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 8:03am If you run on the hot side, like I do, there is no such thing as a jacket that keeps you dry. You can keep the rain out, but you'll still be soaked. Gore-Tex is for people who barely sweat, or walkers.
As an all-weather utility cyclist I find that close-fitting cycle-specific jackets can exaggerate the boil-in-the-bag effect because the air is trapped. Much drier and more comfortable is (roadie fashionistas look away now) a loose-fitting walking jacket - my Berghaus Cornice Goretex is my weapon of choice for really foul weather, the looseness allows airflow between body and outer.
NickWi
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by NickWi »

rogerzilla wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 8:03am If you run on the hot side, like I do, there is no such thing as a jacket that keeps you dry. You can keep the rain out, but you'll still be soaked. Gore-Tex is for people who barely sweat, or walkers.
Or tourist, leisure riders or commuters . As the OP said I want something that's easy to pack to chuck on on the way home after work if it's started raining. When I used to walk to work I did just that, I'd didn't jog or run, or wear silly shorts, I walked, in normal clothes, with a jacket & umbrella as necessary. When I cycled to work, yes it was faster, but there was no need to break into a sweat and I didn't need a shower at work. Not all of us go out riding at our max heart rates or search for KOM points on every ride and for a commuting jacket Gore-Tex is as good as any, and if you buy a last years model that not using the latest all signing all dancing material, bargains can be had.
in4time
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by in4time »

I've used a Paramo Quito for years and whilst having grumblepoints I've found it a good touring jacket. The pit zips are huge, the hood too. Its no longer as water repellent as it was but still good for all but the most horrible downpours. Sadly they're not made anymore but there are some oddments on Paramo eBay store. Perhaps there is a new version in the current range.

Meantime I've bought a Rapha with 25% off from JL. We'll see...
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freiston
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by freiston »

NickWi wrote: 24 Nov 2022, 12:19pm
rogerzilla wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 8:03am If you run on the hot side, like I do, there is no such thing as a jacket that keeps you dry. You can keep the rain out, but you'll still be soaked. Gore-Tex is for people who barely sweat, or walkers.
Or tourist, leisure riders or commuters . As the OP said I want something that's easy to pack to chuck on on the way home after work if it's started raining. When I used to walk to work I did just that, I'd didn't jog or run, or wear silly shorts, I walked, in normal clothes, with a jacket & umbrella as necessary. When I cycled to work, yes it was faster, but there was no need to break into a sweat and I didn't need a shower at work. Not all of us go out riding at our max heart rates or search for KOM points on every ride and for a commuting jacket Gore-Tex is as good as any, and if you buy a last years model that not using the latest all signing all dancing material, bargains can be had.
Not all tourists, leisure riders or commuters are the same and not all journeys are the same. On Monday, in heavy rain, I walked about 1½ miles to the local Aldi, wearing Berghaus Deluge overtrousers and a Rohan Barricade coat (arguably comparable to Goretex). I was very dry and comfy. On the way back with a couple of bags of shopping and going uphill, I got uncomfortably warm and sweated enough to make my long sleeved t-shirt wet. I wasn't walking particularly fast, quite leisurely really and it wasn't an especially warm day - about 10°C iirc.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
in4time
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Re: Waterproof Cycling Jacket

Post by in4time »

Further to my previous post. I returned the Rapha Commuter Jacket. It was terrible! Aesthetically it was attractive and seemed well made but the venting and breathability were awful. Just two small shoulder blade vents and no adjustable wrist bands. Disappointing.
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