SA FW - planet cage pawl spring replacement

[hoogerbooger]

Has anyone successfully threaded in a new planet cage pawl spring, without un- rivetting the pawl pin ?

The instructions ( attached) say a special pawl pin is needed and must be rivetted in place ( with no doubt a careful technique learnt from experience).....but the pins are a discontinued part. Now I believe some have, somehow, just threaded in a new spring.....which I have tried semi- successfully, but the loop in the spring is now a bit altered and the spring is.... well ...less springy. Using a carefully calibrated finger I'd say it less than half a springy as the other pawl, and I have little confidence it will reliably ensure the pawl engages....and I'm not convinced the spring will stay in situ.

So has anyone threaded a spring successfully....and got any tips ?

[jb]

By 'riveting' I think it means just a slight raise in the surface to stop them falling out during assembly. The method of putting the spring in place does make sense after a few read throughs of the description. I wish I'd seen that before fumbling about with my AW.

[Mick F]

Rivets?
The only experience of the internals of a SA3sp is from my CS-RF3 which has the pawls held on by slide-out-able pins.

[seph]

Try asking Vince at
https://colwoodwheelworks.co.uk/

[rogerzilla]

Rivets?
The only experience of the internals of a SA3sp is from my CS-RF3 which has the pawls held on by slide-out-able pins.

Screen Shot 2022-10-31 at 19.37.57.png

The FW 4-speed has two of its pawls riveted in, and new rivets haven't been made for nearly 60 years.

[hoogerbooger]

I'm not that outraged that the community hasn't shot back with a first hand answer on this one. It's a bit of a retro one...but I was hoping some oldtime Moultoneers might know. I've already tried once on the Sturmey Archer Facebook group, which is where it was alleged that someone said they could be threaded...

Vincent at Colwood is probably the best bet of getting an answer....otherwise it'll be trial and error threading them......and then I will be the world's leading expert on this (!)

Just for the curious & retro minded here's a piccie of the rivet......and the broken spring now dodgy-ly replaced.

[simonineaston]

Oldtime Moultoneer here... in the big scheme of things, it may be easier to get hold of an alternative FW. Certainly they used to be two-a-penny in the old days. Try the Moulton fb page and see what crops up. But from what I can recall, the rivet holds the pawl in place and not the spring - I think the springs are free to come and go as they see fit.
ps am reminded of a joke: Hollywood reporter sends telegram to famous & aging actor Cary Grant's agent seeking biog. details: HOW OLD CARY GRANT? The actor himself reads the telegram and replies: OLD CARY FINE - HOW YOU?

[simonineaston]

this link to S-A maintenance leaflet
http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/f ... w-1012.pdf

[rogerzilla]

I would also just get another FW for parts. It's not a common failure, so most will be good replacements.

Unfortunately the supply of spares for these has all but dried up since the sad demise of Old Bike Trader. I needed a new compensating spring and had to pay for a professional strip and rebuild even though I could have done it in my sleep. The guys with the spares don't sell them to anyone else.

[MikeF]

I would also just get another FW for parts. It's not a common failure, so most will be good replacements.

Unfortunately the supply of spares for these has all but dried up since the sad demise of Old Bike Trader. I needed a new compensating spring and had to pay for a professional strip and rebuild even though I could have done it in my sleep. The guys with the spares don't sell them to anyone else.

There used to be an old cycle shop in East Grinstead like that - Norman Pearson, Cycle Engineer. He wouldn't sell parts unless he fitted them. He also claimed he had an input in the design of SA hubs. I think he also frowned upon dérailleurs, but he had a point from an engineering point of view.

[hoogerbooger]

Stripped it down this afternoon and had another go at re-threading. I think this attempt has adequate 'spring' About 80-90 % of the ok one ...... based on my carefully calibrated finger.

[Basically held spring with fine nosed pliers near the 90 degree bend & just hooked the long straight end under the pawl pin... until the bend reached the pin, then slightly twisted the 90 degree bend until it popped under ther other end of the pawl. Then held the long straight end with pliers and gently held/ pulled the bend up against pawl pin, whilst bending the 90 degree bend....back to 90 degrees with tweezers .. as it was a little out of true after the first procedure]

Had to replace 3 out of the of 4 springs and axle ( what was bent) & had to straighten the indicator rod/chain and replace one cone . Changed all bearings. Now clean, oiled and back together.... and seems OK ish ( out of bike anyway) Now has a nice tick- tick -tick free wheeling.....but the RH ball ring seems rough. I believe I can swap in an AW ball ring and driver ....which I have spares for.......but first I think I'll see if I can fit it on my Brompton to test it....after straightening the rim. Lever looks potentially OK......but will find out if it holds in 1st.

( all good fun and either it or the FG will eventually go on the new hack bike .....not that any of it will be new...apart from chain and some bearings)

[fausto99]

No need to stick to old school thinking IMHO. Why not just CA glue a short metal pin in place. Use a thick CA and activator, so the pin just sticks to the cage and doesn’t run into the pawl. If you need to get it apart again, use a soldering iron. The CA will give up above 100 deg C.

[hoogerbooger]

Rogerzilla: I didn't measure the compensator spring with the veniers but my recollection is that ( using a dodgy tape measure) it was 39mm or just below with the collar in. I.e. so just below the 1 9/16 inch minimum for the spring.( but the measurement could be a mm out and it might be closer)

So how short was the one you had problems with......and did you try just stretching it ?

[rogerzilla]

I can't remember the exact measurement but it was well below spec. I did try stretching it but grabbing it would have required pliers and they would probably have mangled it.

I think the cause is the hub being parked in low gear for probably years and years. Not many 1960s FW hubs have been ridden regularly for 60 years.

[hoogerbooger]

Noted. Thanks for that. So if I get it working I'll make sure I leave it in 4th when parked up.

I got a response from the Sturmey Facebook group suggesting I may be OK if it's only just below.