Travelling to southern Europe without flying

[pedals2slowly]

Planning a trip to warmer bits of Europe this winter but slightly restricted by the 90 days in 180 EU rule so can't cycle all the way.
Probably need to hop out of the EU to Morocco to reduce days in EU for a month, so getting to France, Spain or Portugal make sense.
What's the easiest way to get to the Mediterranean with a bike without flying in December?

[Jdsk]

Have a look at Ouigo:
viewtopic.php?p=1679144

And I would include hiring a car in the options, especially if there's more than one of you. This is generally much cheaper if you drop off in the same country where you pick up.

Jonathan

[pedals2slowly]

Have a look at Ouigo:
viewtopic.php?p=1679144

And I would include hiring a car in the options, especially if there's more than one of you. This is generally much cheaper if you drop off in the same country where you pick up.

Jonathan

That's interesting. Speed and expense is not of the essence and I 'd rather gaze out of a train window than drive a car anywhere anytime.
Thanks

[simonhill]

Ferry to N Spain then train to wherever. The Spanish MD trains take assembled bikes for €3. High speed take bagged bikes, but they have to be small-ish. You can book on the renfe website (Spanish Railways). Do a Google search for bikes on trains in Spain, lots of useful info in English on the renfe site.

Others will advise on going by train through France.

Check out if Morocco is open. It wasn't about 4 weeks ago and all the ferries from S Spain were freight only.

Might help if you say if bike is packed or 'a bike'.

[bohrsatom]

If you want to to go through France to the med your options are pretty much:

1. Get to Paris. As Eurostar aren't carrying bikes atm your'll need to take the ferry (Dover->Calais), then local TER trains from Calais to Paris via Amiens). Maybe this will change before December

Then either

a) TGV or Intercites train from Paris to Toulouse, then a Intercities train towards the Med. Bike booking required and not all TGVs allow bikes, but can't see you having issues in December
or
b) Slow (TER) train from Paris Bercy to Lyon, then another TER from Lyon to the Med. No bike booking required

For more westerly Med destinations like Narbonne, Montpellier, etc, it's best to go via Toulouse

I doubt you'd be able to do the entire journey in a day, but if you stay overnight in Amiens, you can get an early train into Paris, a mid-morning TGV to Toulouse and you should make your destination by early evening.

[nirakaro]

If you're not in a rush, I've found that a short-to-normal day's cycling each day, plus hopping on a local train whenever possible, works nicely - for example I got from the heel of Italy to the Channel, including a couple of Alpine passes, in a non-strenuous eight day ride.
I'm puzzled by your 'hop out of the EU to Morocco' idea – presumably after ninety days in the EU, you'd have to spend ninety days in Morocco before you can come back?

[simonhill]

,.....presumably he wants to break up the 90 days.

As I think he means, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to use all your Schengen days as then you would have to wait a further 90 days - or fly.

I split my 90 days, but came home to Blighty for Christmas and NY. I'm not currently allowed into the EU. Long live Brexit - you b*st*rds.

Don't forget Cyprus is outside Schengen and has reasonable winter weather.

[b1ke]

I overlanded to Morocco from England a few years ago, also because I didn't want to fly.

Route as follows:-
Ferry Newhaven to Dieppe.
Train to Paris
Overnight train Paris to Latour de Carole, via Toulouse
(more info here... https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-route ... -train.htm
Regional train Latour de Carole to Barcelona.
Ferry Barcelona to Tangier Med.

A bike is fine on all of the above, without dismantling, apart from the overnighter from Paris to Latour de Carole. I didn't take a bike on this trip, but saw people with folders boarding the Latour train. I suspect non folders would be an issue.

(I have taken a bike on the train from Paris to Toulouse very recently. On the way there (SNCF), it could be stored fully assembled for a small fee. On the return, OUIGO Grand Vitesse there was also a fee, but it had to be folded and bagged. If the route appeals to you, it would be worth doing more research into the finer details of bike transport. I used Trainline and information about taking bikes came up when I booked.)

One of the reasons I took this particular route was cost. I had time, but cash was tight. The Paris to Latour train ride was particularly good value, as was the ferry to Tangier Med. I'm sure there are quicker ways of getting to Spain/Morocco, if you're happy to spend more.

Hope there are a couple of bits in my route which are of use.

[pedals2slowly]

Ferry to N Spain then train to wherever. The Spanish MD trains take assembled bikes for €3. High speed take bagged bikes, but they have to be small-ish. You can book on the renfe website (Spanish Railways). Do a Google search for bikes on trains in Spain, lots of useful info in English on the renfe site.

Others will advise on going by train through France.

Check out if Morocco is open. It wasn't about 4 weeks ago and all the ferries from S Spain were freight only.

Might help if you say if bike is packed or 'a bike'.

Brittany Ferries seem to be the only company that does UK - Spain routes and they stop running in early November

[PH]

If you pack the bike, there's also various coach options, some people hate the idea, I quite like traveling by coach. It can also be excellent value, pre-covid I traveled London > Bilbao for under £40, London > Amsterdam £22, London > Paris £19.
The trip to Bilbao was 22 hours, with the break on the ferry and a couple of hours in Paris (Well some underground bus station on the outskirts) plus a couple of half hour breaks along the way. When I do it again, I'll split it and have a days sightseeing somewhere, at those prices I could probably add a nights accommodation and it'd still be considerably cheaper than the other options (Apart from flying!) I travel with a bagged folder, but I've seen several others with bagged or boxed full size bikes.

[Will]

Brittany Ferries seem to be the only company that does UK - Spain routes and they stop running in early November

According to the Man in Seat61:

"Brittany Ferries sails from Portsmouth to Santander all year round, usually twice a week leaving Portsmouth on Tuesdays at 17:00 (arriving Santander at 18:00 next day) & Wednesdays at 12:00 (arriving Santander at 13:00 next day). However, sailing days & times vary so check online at www.brittany-ferries.co.uk." (My bold).

https://www.seat61.com/ferry-to-spain.htm

If you go to the Brittany Ferries website you won't see any timetable information after October. I believe the winter timetable will be available sometime around July.

Will

[twowheelstwokids]

Hmm, my post about this was rejected. Second attempt.

I found a great blog but I'm not allowed to share it. The point of it was that train is definitely the most eco option but obviously with Eurostar not taking bikes right now you'll need to take the ferry. They've been a bit hit and miss throughout covid but usually run all year. Then you've got to connect via train or bus. The most convenient route is probably an end-to-end coach - and given the example given above (to Balbao) a decent price.

If there are two or more of you you may find it's more "eco" (and convenient again) to drive. There were some examples given on the site (I'm not allowed to share!) which illustrated this. It was interesting!

[simonhill]

Could you not just name the blog, without giving an actual link.

[bohrsatom]

I’ve just read that certain TGVs between Paris and Lyon now carry non-dismantled bikes, from a quick search on SNCF connect this is around 10-15 trains per day. This saves 3h10m compared taking the TER from Paris Bercy

I also understand that SNCF are looking to expand this to Paris-Marseille later this summer. Good news!

[Dingdong]

Paris to Marseille is a fabulous journey, recommended.