Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

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simonineaston
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by simonineaston »

The news that she alledgedly tried (twice) to effectively bury bad news by exerting personal influence is not a good look for a lawyer - it's all grist to the mill...
S
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Psamathe
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 21 May 2023, 10:50am I don't think that the speeding issue will bring her down, and I'm not expecting an inquiry.

But OTOH the Prime Minister has just expressed his full confidence...

Jonathan
I would agree (wont bring her down and there wont be an inquiry) but I don't think Labour really want that as at worst it would give a "not a big deal" answer. What Labour probably want is for Sunak to say no so it becomes another brick in the sleaze impression the electorate have (Johnson, Hancock, Raab, etc., etc. (this being one of the non-specific "etc"). One of those cases where nobody will remember specifics but will incrementally contribute to the poor reputation of Conservatives.

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simonineaston
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by simonineaston »

...and on the same day, we learn that she tried to give a three-line whip a swerve, so bad things continue to stack up against her. Long-term, the Torys make think she'll be a liability, come the next ge but short-term, better in the tent, etc....
S
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by DaveReading »

She's a survivor, not about to be departing any time soon.
pete75
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by pete75 »

She is Home Secretary, in charge of law and order in the UK. She's been caught breaking the law. For that reason she should go. The same should apply to police officers, judges etc caught law breaking.
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by reohn2 »

pete75 wrote: 23 May 2023, 9:13am She is Home Secretary, in charge of law and order in the UK. She's been caught breaking the law. For that reason she should go. The same should apply to police officers, judges etc caught law breaking.
For me it's not just that she broke the law but that she then sought preferential treatment after the fact,first enquiring if her fine could be put on parliamentary expenses,than seeking a one to one safety course to avoid being lumped in tpwith the plebs.
Diabolical behaviour for the minister who's remit is or should be upholding the law.
Last edited by reohn2 on 23 May 2023, 10:23am, edited 1 time in total.
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Psamathe
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

pete75 wrote: 23 May 2023, 9:13am She is Home Secretary, in charge of law and order in the UK. She's been caught breaking the law. For that reason she should go. The same should apply to police officers, judges etc caught law breaking.
All she seems to be doing these days is "Stop the Boats". Home Secretary used to be a very broad brief but she seems only capable of handling one, "the Boats" and all she seems to do about that is dangerous rhetoric designed to stir those racists amongst society.

Maybe we need somebody else as Home Secretary to deal with the many things being ignored and she can spend her time spreading dangerous racist rhetoric (and campaigning to become Party Leader/PM).

Ian
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

reohn2 wrote: 23 May 2023, 10:22am
pete75 wrote: 23 May 2023, 9:13am She is Home Secretary, in charge of law and order in the UK. She's been caught breaking the law. For that reason she should go. The same should apply to police officers, judges etc caught law breaking.
For me it's not just that she broke the law but that she then sought preferential treatment after the fact,first enquiring if her fine could be put on parliamentary expenses,than seeking a one to one safety course to avoid being lumped in tpwith the plebs.
Diabolical behaviour for the minister who's remit is or should be upholding the law.
I understand quite a few "celebrities" get one-to-one speeding awareness courses, sometimes at their request through their lawyers, sometimes at the request of the course provider. Course providers can request it as they don't want the presence of a "celebrity" to distract i.e. other attendees who should be focusing on the consequences of their speeding instead focusing on some "celebrity" they are almost sitting next to.

BUT, those celebrities use their lawyers that they are paying for NOT the Civil Service and using the Civil Service for personal issues is breaking the Ministerial Code which is a resign/sack issue. Even worse given she is the Home Secretary one of the most senior posts in our Government so any public servant phoning the course provider about her course is doing so on her behalf -> Ministerial code broken -> resign/sack.

(I've never done such a course so am just repeating what I've heard/seen reported)

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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Jdsk »

Urgent Question at 1230 today.

It's probably in the Prime Minister's interest to have made a decision on referral by then

Jonathan
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Jdsk »

"Suella Braverman accused of fresh ministerial code breaches over undisclosed links to Rwanda":
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 43646.html

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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by PH »

reohn2 wrote: 23 May 2023, 10:22am For me it's not just that she broke the law but that she then sought preferential treatment after the fact,first enquiring if her fine could be put on parliamentary expenses,than seeking a one to one safety course to avoid being lumped in tpwith the plebs.
Diabolical behaviour for the minister who's remit is or should be upholding the law.
I don't disagree. However it'll be Sunak who decides whether she stays or goes and I suspect that'll be for political rather than moral reasons. Long term, I doubt this episode will harm her ambitions. A lot of people consider being caught speeding something to offer sympathy for and doing your utmost to avoid the penalty something they'd do themselves given the chance. Consider that it was the support for grouper Chris Pincher which brought Johnson down rather then IMO far more serious scandals and corruption.
Mike Sales
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Mike Sales »

PH wrote: 23 May 2023, 12:55pm it was the support for grouper Chris Pincher
More of an octopus than a grouper!
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

Seems weird to me that Sunak has to have an inquiry headed by himself before deciding about an inquiry headed by somebody else. If there are reasonable allegations then get the person whose job it is to inquire to inquire.

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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 23 May 2023, 10:36am
reohn2 wrote: 23 May 2023, 10:22am
pete75 wrote: 23 May 2023, 9:13am She is Home Secretary, in charge of law and order in the UK. She's been caught breaking the law. For that reason she should go. The same should apply to police officers, judges etc caught law breaking.
For me it's not just that she broke the law but that she then sought preferential treatment after the fact,first enquiring if her fine could be put on parliamentary expenses,than seeking a one to one safety course to avoid being lumped in tpwith the plebs.
Diabolical behaviour for the minister who's remit is or should be upholding the law.
I understand quite a few "celebrities" get one-to-one speeding awareness courses, sometimes at their request through their lawyers, sometimes at the request of the course provider. Course providers can request it as they don't want the presence of a "celebrity" to distract i.e. other attendees who should be focusing on the consequences of their speeding instead focusing on some "celebrity" they are almost sitting next to. [...]
That doesn't apply here because she's not a "celebrity" of the fame that gets private courses. Almost no speeders would recognise Braverman and even fewer would have when she was Attorney General.

It stinks that the problem attracting criticism is misuse of the civil service and not that we have a government minister who went on a lethally-fast rampage around the streets. To get three points and a fine, she was probably at least 6mph over the limit (as that's 10%+3mph at 30mph, and we all know most police outside London won't enforce 20mph any more strictly, if at all). 6mph over seems like careless or reckless, not bad judgment and a moment's inattention leading to 1 or 2 over.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by mjr »

PH wrote: 23 May 2023, 12:55pm
reohn2 wrote: 23 May 2023, 10:22am For me it's not just that she broke the law but that she then sought preferential treatment after the fact,first enquiring if her fine could be put on parliamentary expenses,than seeking a one to one safety course to avoid being lumped in tpwith the plebs.
Diabolical behaviour for the minister who's remit is or should be upholding the law.
I don't disagree. However it'll be Sunak who decides whether she stays or goes and I suspect that'll be for political rather than moral reasons. Long term, I doubt this episode will harm her ambitions. A lot of people consider being caught speeding something to offer sympathy for and doing your utmost to avoid the penalty something they'd do themselves given the chance. Consider that it was the support for grouper Chris Pincher which brought Johnson down rather then IMO far more serious scandals and corruption.
The Pincher affair and the other scandals were all Johnson treating rules as something for the little people, not him. Pincher was just the straw that broke the cabinet's back. It could have been literally any one of the scandals that ejected him from leadership. He's still not done sinking, with an expected punishment by Parliament soon, which may then open the door to him facing a byelection.

The speeding offence and all the breaches of the ministerial code makes it seem like Braverman is another "rules for you, not me" hypocrite. I don't think it will matter if many people disagree with speeding being a crime: it is and Braverman is partly responsible for it remaining so, so she'll be just another hypocrite to them.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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