Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

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Psamathe
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

pete75 wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:43am
Pebble wrote: 27 May 2023, 10:23am
Psamathe wrote: 27 May 2023, 10:09am
The problem is it appears that she asked the Civil Servants to investigate the "private speeding course" and using Civil Servants for personal matters is against the Ministerial Code and breaking that code is a resignation/sacking offence.

That said seems it isn't the first time she's broken the Ministerial Code and she seems to regard herself as "above" such rules and reality is, weak leadership seems to mean she is.

Ian
I would like to see more context around this. Did she simply say to someone in the office "do you know if you can have a one on one course?" or did she demand a full written report into all the possibilities of what would be least damaging. If the later, then I would agree that would be wrong.

It appears the long knives are out for her, and everything she does or says is blown out of all proportion. She is being relentlessly bullied so care needs to be taken into what to believe.
Not bullied but held to account.
Also, if she had a truthful defence she'd be using it, making sure all the Press had her defence. Instead she is just evasive and fails to answer the specific relevant questions - and from that one can only asume she did what the Press are reporting.

Ian
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Pebble wrote: 27 May 2023, 10:23am... She is being relentlessly bullied so ...
Attempting to paint Braverman as the victim in this, or any other of her many lapses of standards, integrity and honesty will convince nobody.
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mjr
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by mjr »

Pebble wrote: 27 May 2023, 1:02am I really don't see what the problem is, she done a bit of speeding, something that probably 95% of drivers do on every single journey they make, she got a ticket which is remarkably unlucky,
It's nowhere near 95%, at least not to the level currently prosecuted, but I suspect you do. Even so, please stop trying to normalise criminally bad driving which puts cyclists at greater risk.

Getting a ticket shouldn't be unlucky. Fine them all and use the idiot tax income to pay down the national debt.
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Pebble
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Pebble »

mjr wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:14pm
Pebble wrote: 27 May 2023, 1:02am I really don't see what the problem is, she done a bit of speeding, something that probably 95% of drivers do on every single journey they make, she got a ticket which is remarkably unlucky,
It's nowhere near 95%, at least not to the level currently prosecuted, but I suspect you do. Even so, please stop trying to normalise criminally bad driving which puts cyclists at greater risk.

Getting a ticket shouldn't be unlucky. Fine them all and use the idiot tax income to pay down the national debt.
When you say 'nowhere near 95%' do you mean more like 99% ?

I hate it and complain about it to officialdom on a regular basis, but sadly speeding is normal, the vast majority of drivers do it at some point on every journey. we have extensive 20mph areas in all the towns in my area, evrery body speeds all of the time, the powers-that-be are proud the average speed is 27mph in the 20 zones (average speed is 35% above the limit, and they tell me that is good) Speeding is normal whether we like it or not

I would go further than speeding tickets for everyone, the mobile car-crushing-machine that appears in my dreams would be rolled out. And for those more than double the speed limit, well they would be staying in their car.... bolloxs with their human rights laws.
Psamathe
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Psamathe »

Pebble wrote: 28 May 2023, 12:32am
mjr wrote: 27 May 2023, 11:14pm
Pebble wrote: 27 May 2023, 1:02am I really don't see what the problem is, she done a bit of speeding, something that probably 95% of drivers do on every single journey they make, she got a ticket which is remarkably unlucky,
It's nowhere near 95%, at least not to the level currently prosecuted, but I suspect you do. Even so, please stop trying to normalise criminally bad driving which puts cyclists at greater risk.

Getting a ticket shouldn't be unlucky. Fine them all and use the idiot tax income to pay down the national debt.
When you say 'nowhere near 95%' do you mean more like 99% ?
...
Maybe you could give some sources for your amazing statistic(s)? Personally I have no idea so I'd just be guessing but some actual stats would give some confidence in such high numbers.

Ian
Pebble
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Pebble »

Psamathe wrote: 28 May 2023, 10:44am
Maybe you could give some sources for your amazing statistic(s)? Personally I have no idea so I'd just be guessing but some actual stats would give some confidence in such high numbers.

Ian
Personal observation. I doubt there is an HGV in scotland that does not flout their 40mph speed limit on single carriageways I even see council wagons on their limiter at 56 when they should be doing no ore than 40. In built up areas I often observe the speed awareness signs (the ones that show you speed) very very rarely will I see one show a speed less than 20.. (and drivers do slow down past these signs)
I would be quite confident in my earlier post that 95% of drivers break the law at some stage on every journey. And remember it is not just speeding, a good percentage of drivers also play with their phones.
pwa
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by pwa »

It must be true that any driver who has driven for more than a few miles, in their entire driving life, will have strayed over a speed limit at some point. The only drivers saying they never speed are liars. But limits are there for a very good reason, so people have to be made aware of their excesses and made to pay a price if appropriate. And for that price to be a deterrent, as it must be, the price should be paid by the individual doing the driving, not by their employer. The ideal price to pay is points on the licence, and the potential for a ban. That is a penalty that works for the wealthy almost as much as for the poor.
reohn2
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 29 May 2023, 10:37am It must be true that any driver who has driven for more than a few miles, in their entire driving life, will have strayed over a speed limit at some point. The only drivers saying they never speed are liars. But limits are there for a very good reason, so people have to be made aware of their excesses and made to pay a price if appropriate. And for that price to be a deterrent, as it must be, the price should be paid by the individual doing the driving, not by their employer. The ideal price to pay is points on the licence, and the potential for a ban. That is a penalty that works for the wealthy almost as much as for the poor.
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harriedgary
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by harriedgary »

some people give Buddhists a bad rap
Bored with earth, where is the mother ship please?
Jdsk
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by Jdsk »

"We will therefore pause the differentiation policy in the next package of Immigration Rules changes in July 2023. This means we will stop taking grouping decisions under the differentiated asylum system after these Rules changes and those individuals who are successful in their asylum application, including those who are granted humanitarian protection, will receive the same conditions. Our ability to remove failed asylum applicants remains unchanged."
https://questions-statements.parliament ... 08/hlws824

And what it actually means:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ut-backlog

Jonathan
markjohnobrien
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by markjohnobrien »

Lance Dopestrong wrote: 16 Mar 2023, 7:13pm No book burnings, no Krystallnacht, no roaming gangs of brownshirts beating up Jews (of which I am one), no forced state acquisition of businesses on ethnic or religious grounds, no Sunak pronouncing themselves Fuhrer (I guess it would be Lord Protector Here) and unilaterally usurping the monarchy, and so on.

So no, for all the fashionable rhetoric we are not remotely comparable to 1930's Germany and such suggestions are as puerile as they are facile. It's nothing more that petty diatribe at a time when we need a concerted and constructive response - silly name calling and childish similies and the like didn't help us avoid Brexit or yet another Tory Government, and they do zero to help us respond positively to this issue either. If anything, such silly playground behaviour could be argued to actually make these things happen by failing to provide a serious and coherent response to such right leaning proposals.
Well said: there’s an awful lot of pathetic, self important, self indulgent, childish, throwing toys out of the pram, historical illiteracy, from those who believe that we are close to or on a pathway towards a National Socialist state.

It’s also grossly immoral and offensive, as well as racist, to Jewish people who suffered torture, murder, and genocide under the NS regime as it trivialises their suffering.
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cycle tramp
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by cycle tramp »

markjohnobrien wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:58pm
It’s also grossly immoral and offensive, as well as racist, to Jewish people who suffered torture, murder, and genocide under the NS regime as it trivialises their suffering.
I was of the understanding that the Jewish community was based on a shared fixed belief system unencumbered by facts* rather than through genetics, a religion rather than race. Please let me know if I've misunderstood the situation.

(*after all, where would be the virtue in believing something which could be proven to anyone in a laboratory?)
It's time to go :-)
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by roubaixtuesday »

markjohnobrien wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:58pm
Lance Dopestrong wrote: 16 Mar 2023, 7:13pm No book burnings, no Krystallnacht, no roaming gangs of brownshirts beating up Jews (of which I am one), no forced state acquisition of businesses on ethnic or religious grounds, no Sunak pronouncing themselves Fuhrer (I guess it would be Lord Protector Here) and unilaterally usurping the monarchy, and so on.

So no, for all the fashionable rhetoric we are not remotely comparable to 1930's Germany and such suggestions are as puerile as they are facile. It's nothing more that petty diatribe at a time when we need a concerted and constructive response - silly name calling and childish similies and the like didn't help us avoid Brexit or yet another Tory Government, and they do zero to help us respond positively to this issue either. If anything, such silly playground behaviour could be argued to actually make these things happen by failing to provide a serious and coherent response to such right leaning proposals.
Well said: there’s an awful lot of pathetic, self important, self indulgent, childish, throwing toys out of the pram, historical illiteracy, from those who believe that we are close to or on a pathway towards a National Socialist state.

It’s also grossly immoral and offensive, as well as racist, to Jewish people who suffered torture, murder, and genocide under the NS regime as it trivialises their suffering.
Perhaps you might reconsider on realising some survivors of the holocaust seem to disagree with you?

"When I hear you using words against refugees like 'swarms' and an 'invasion', I am reminded of the language used to dehumanise and justify the murder of my family and millions of others.

"Why do you find the need to use that kind of language?"


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64282961
cycle tramp
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Re: Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

Post by cycle tramp »

markjohnobrien wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:58pm
Well said: there’s an awful lot of pathetic, self important, self indulgent, childish, throwing toys out of the pram, historical illiteracy, from those who believe that we are close to or on a pathway towards a National Socialist state.

It’s also grossly immoral and offensive, as well as racist, to Jewish people who suffered torture, murder, and genocide under the NS regime as it trivialises their suffering.
The thing is, if the Jewish community is one of religion rather than race, then its not racist.

As for questioning whether Britain, or America or any else is on a slide to a totalitarian state, and using Germany's History to do so, is in my view always a good thing.
I do not believe for an instant anyone on this thread set out to trivialise any sort of torture, murder or genocide whether it occurred during the rise of the Nazi, or right now in China.

I do accept you may be offended. However in your last post you used words that others may find offensive. If any person is oftened by this thread, I would like to remind them, they do not have to read it. I'm sure their other halves would much prefer them to get on with redecorating the spare room or cleaning the bathroom or something. I know mine would...

It is the nature of free speech that we do occasionally through expressions of anger or fear or even of a single thought that we do offend.
My grandfather and I suspect alot of relatives of those reading this post, placed their lives on the line and fought for this right. Many never returned home.

The idea that a thread should stop because it is a vehicle to criticise the antics of our current government because a few members are offended, seems contrary not only to free speech but equally to the proper examinations of those would would seek to lead us, no matter what their political colour.
It's time to go :-)
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