Braverman: Rise of the Fascists

[wheelyhappy99]

Many would think the number of immigrant doctors here an argument in favour of migration.

He was making the point that on balance migrants make a positive contribution to the economy and wider society.

[Jdsk]

Many would think the number of immigrant doctors here an argument in favour of migration.

He was making the point that on balance migrants make a positive contribution to the economy and wider society.

And even more could if we had rational policies:

"Trained medics who could ease NHS crisis stuck in asylum limbo":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ylum-limbo

Jonathan

[pete75]

Many would think the number of immigrant doctors here an argument in favour of migration.

He was making the point that on balance migrants make a positive contribution to the economy and wider society.

Sorry, I misunderstand your post. For some reason I was under the impression he was a Tory MP.

[Pebble]

Literally no one is suggesting that. Can you not argue against real alternatives, so must argue against imaginary demons?

so what are the migrant enthusiasts arguing for then ?
they don't seem to like the idea of the risky small boat crossings over the channel and they don't like the drawn out process of being accepted into UK citizenship when they arrive!

So what do you want, and if anyone arrives, who even you don't think should be here, how would you propose moving them on?

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Is this how we think people who've contributed to the UK all their lives should be treated in their time of need :- https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... umentation
Read and weep.

I can just imagine the distorted view the gaurdian will have, so won't bother reading it, any other less biased sources?

Suit yerself but his isn't an isolated case thanks to the hostile environment initiated by May and continued by Patel and then Bravermen.
People who were asked to come here from Commonwealth countries after WW2 when the 'motherland' : needed labour,only to be slapped in the face when they sought UK citizenship.
There's none so blind as them that will not see.

All news is someone else's opinion, so what ever we read anywhere is someone trying to convince you of their opinions. So for me I like to co-oberate any news article that I'm not sure of by looking at other sources. I searched for the name in the article that you pointed to, and it only seems to be news in the gaurdian twitter and facebook!. Given the gaurdians very left leaning viewpoint on about everything, and I don't do facebook or twitter, - I'm thinking, it is probably not worth the elecy reading the article.

Don't get get wrong, I'm not anti gaurdian, I like their environmental articles very much, they espouse my viewpoint (I suppose i should read other sources that challenge what I believe) but it's easy just reading what makes us happy isn't it, And surprisingly their football coverage is quite good (football must have become wokey enough)

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we can't cope with the population explosion as it is, the country is at breaking point, and more and more people is the last think we need.

Public services in the UK are indeed struggling. Might that be due to the current governing party having reduced spending on them for more than a decade?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the near million vacancies the UK now has are going to be filled by the current population.

As my former (Tory) MP said 'If you want to meet a migrant go and see your doctor".

There is something very sadly wrong if a natoin can't look after itself. Yes, it is true for the near future we need more people, as too many of us seem to have given up, too fat, too unwell, too lazy, too much money... But long term, more and more people is not the solution, they too will soon fall into our culture of doing very little, then we will need even more people - it is clearly unsustainable and will fail

And the migrants we should be trying to hold onto, the ones that graduate here in our universities, we are unbelievably trying to get rid of. We need to control who gets here and who gets to stay, Huge gangs of unskilled young men arriving by boat are not what we need.

[Jdsk]

so what are the migrant enthusiasts arguing for then ?
they don't seem to like the idea of the risky small boat crossings over the channel and they don't like the drawn out process of being accepted into UK citizenship when they arrive!

So what do you want, and if anyone arrives, who even you don't think should be here, how would you propose moving them on?
...

A few of the things that I want:

1 That we should abide by our international commitment to protect refugees.

2 That refugees should be supported much closer to their place of origin, including support for legal routes of migration and settlement. (That's going to require international collaboration.)

3 That we should process all applications quickly and fairly.

4 That we should prosecute people who traffic other people. (That's going to require international collaboration.)

5 That all debate about migration should be based on things that are true rather than things that aren't.

6 That politicians should stop using disgusting language about migrants.

Other wishes are available.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

Literally no one is suggesting that. Can you not argue against real alternatives, so must argue against imaginary demons?

so what are the migrant enthusiasts arguing for then ?
they don't seem to like the idea of the risky small boat crossings over the channel and they don't like the drawn out process of being accepted into UK citizenship when they arrive!

So what do you want, and if anyone arrives, who even you don't think should be here, how would you propose moving them on?
...

(I feel the term "enthusiasts" completely misses the issues causing people to seek asylum).

1. Stop confusing migration and asylum.

2. Provide a safe way for those seeking to apply for asylum to do so (e.g. provide means for them to apply whilst in France - then nobody would get in a small rubber boat).

3. Process asylum applications in a timely manner (reducing the need for hotels/barges and significantly reducing the costs).

4. Stop making it a political campaign issue. We have international and humanitarian obligations; feeding prejudices whilst politicians try to appear tough just highlights the poor calibre politicians we suffer.

etc.

Ian

[Jdsk]

SNAP?

: - )

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

SNAP?

: - )

Jonathan

Sorry. Missed your immediately preceding post. Paging issue.

Ian

[Jdsk]

: - )

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

If you want to know where this behaviour takes you in the end, try conservapedia.

Just looked at Conservapedia - surely a parody?

You'd think so, but that's the state of right wing politics in the 21st century. Admittedly US, but the concept of basing views on ideology rather than reality is here too - see Brexit.

[reohn2]

I can just imagine the distorted view the gaurdian will have, so won't bother reading it, any other less biased sources?

Suit yerself but his isn't an isolated case thanks to the hostile environment initiated by May and continued by Patel and then Bravermen.
People who were asked to come here from Commonwealth countries after WW2 when the 'motherland' : needed labour,only to be slapped in the face when they sought UK citizenship.
There's none so blind as them that will not see.

All news is someone else's opinion, so what ever we read anywhere is someone trying to convince you of their opinions.

After WW2 we begged people to come here to fill vacancies UK citizens couldn't due to war losses,now we demonise them over paperwork after they've worked here all their lives paid their taxes,NI contributions to build the country up when it needed it
You think the Windrush generation and the May/Patel/Braverman creation and continuation of the hostile environment program and the individual in the article you didn't read is merely opinion?
As I posted before suit yerself.

it's easy just reading what makes us happy isn't it

,
It seems that way for you at least.

Forgive me but you seem to labour under the Farage illusion that the country is going to be overrun with foreigners who the country doesn't need or want.
Which is sort of true with what's happening presently under this crazy government that's running the current sh*tshow.
Under their leadship illegal immigration has grown exponentially and the processing of those people is dire and lethargic in the extreme facilitated by a reduce in staff needed to process their cases,but rather Braverman,backed upto the hilt by Sunak and previously Johnson threaten to fly them all off to Rwanda enbloc without due process classing them all as illegal spongers and scrougers indeed Braverman,sick individual she is actually dreams of aeroplanes full of immigrants flying out to Rwanda.

As Jonathan and others have posted,this terrible government needs to face upto it's commitments to international law instead,like that animal Farage et al,playing games which pander to their sychphantic and neurotic fan base of rightwing loonies.

At a time when the country needs labour we first opt out of the EU's freedom of movement under the auspices of protecting our borders and sovereignty,which all the while sees an increase of immigrants and refugees who can't work whilst at the same time making it practically impossible to enter the country as a legal refugee or migrant,makes perfect sense doesn't it?

[Pebble]

(I feel the term "enthusiasts" completely misses the issues causing people to seek asylum).

1. Stop confusing migration and asylum.

here lies a problem, how do you distinguish ?

for someone with the wit the guile and the wherewithal to make it across a continent, and then has no qualms about illegally breaking into another country, even though they clearly know they should not be doing so. Would it not beyond the imagination after destroying all their own paperwork, for them to buy, or simply make up a story that will see them wizz through the asylum checks?

[Jdsk]

(I feel the term "enthusiasts" completely misses the issues causing people to seek asylum).

1. Stop confusing migration and asylum.

here lies a problem, how do you distinguish ?

for someone with the wit the guile and the wherewithal to make it across a continent, and then has no qualms about illegally breaking into another country, even though they clearly know they should not be doing so. Would it not beyond the imagination after destroying all their own paperwork, for them to buy, or simply make up a story that will see them wizz through the asylum checks?

By processing claims competently and quickly and fairly. And in accordance with the law of the land and the treaty obligations.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

(I feel the term "enthusiasts" completely misses the issues causing people to seek asylum).

1. Stop confusing migration and asylum.

here lies a problem, how do you distinguish ?
...

And when quoting numbers by making it clear to which categories they refer.

Jonathan

[Pebble]

Forgive me but you seem to labour under the Farage illusion that the country is going to be overrun with foreigners who the country doesn't need or want.

Have never liked farage and didn't vote for brexit. But have to admit the closing down of very cheap labour from east european countries was a good thing for many, for instance the hgv driver shortage started to see many increases to money and conditions. Vast amounts of cheap imported/migrant labour is not a good thing for those not so well paid.

If we had less wage disparity, more of us would work and there wouldn't be a need to constantly import cheap labour.