Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

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Simon
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Joined: 6 Nov 2022, 4:14pm

Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Simon »

Hello - I’m planning a several month trip that visits around 1500 different cities , towns and villages across the British mainland, and can’t work out the best way to plan my route. I’m thinking of zigzagging up the western side of the Pennines, across the top of Scotland and then zigzagging down the eastern side (I live in Surrey) but don’t want to add loads of extra miles if I can help it. I might want a van driver’s app and start from a route it gives before diverting off some main roads onto quieter side roads, but until I have some idea of the minimum total distance I don’t even know how much time I need. I’m happy to pay for an app but only if I can be fairly confident it will work.
Any suggestions??
Thanks
Simon
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by rareposter »

Google Maps will do this. Just put in a load of "via" points, it'll even allow you to choose your mode of transport. Could set it as car just to get a baseline (be aware it'll put you on motorways though) and then revise from there.

If it gets too complicated, break it down into shorter chunks. Even just sitting down with a UK road atlas and marking the points out will give you a basic visualisation.
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Nearholmer »

Whichever route finder you use, and personally I wouldn’t use Google Maps for actual, detailed cycling routes, because it sends you onto scarily busy roads, you will probably have to break it down into small chunks to get optimal routes in detail because they all have practical limits on how many nodes and branches they can process, so will either crash-out or suggest long sections on A roads to stay within their capability if you ask for a hugely olng route all at once.

I tend to use CycleStreets, but many here speak very highly of CycleTravel; both run over OSM and are good for the job.
richardfm
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Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 3:17pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by richardfm »

rareposter wrote: 6 Nov 2022, 7:45pm Google Maps will do this. Just put in a load of "via" points, it'll even allow you to choose your mode of transport. Could set it as car just to get a baseline (be aware it'll put you on motorways though) and then revise from there.

If it gets too complicated, break it down into shorter chunks. Even just sitting down with a UK road atlas and marking the points out will give you a basic visualisation.
Google maps won't reorganise the via points in to an optimal order like the apps used by delivery drivers do.
Richard M
Cardiff
PH
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Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by PH »

Simon wrote: 6 Nov 2022, 4:26pm I might want a van driver’s app and start from a route it gives before diverting off some main roads onto quieter side roads, but until I have some idea of the minimum total distance I don’t even know how much time I need. I’m happy to pay for an app but only if I can be fairly confident it will work.
Any suggestions??
Thanks
Simon
There's a good choice of software designed for finding the most efficient route for multidrop drivers. I've used RouteXL, it works well for it's intended purpose, input up to 200 addresses and it plans the route. It isn't intended for cycling and of course the most efficient order for a commercial vehicle won't always be the same as for a bike. I think there's a free version if you want to have a play with it, though it's quite restricted.
Google maps set to walking gives the shortest route between points, it can then be dragged away from footpaths. I've used it as the basis for planning multi stop routes, like for the BCQ, though nothing on the scale you're considering. It has the advantage over other mapping I've used of being able to easily re-order the points (EDIT - Though as richardfm points out, it won't do this automatically). Once I've settled on the order of these, I'll use a cycling specific route planner, usually cycletravel, to finalise it, occasionally needing to go back and forth a couple of times.
You're sounds like a mammoth undertaking, I hope you like planning!
richardfm
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Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 3:17pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by richardfm »

I've just looked at https://www.routexl.co.uk/. There is an option in parameters for "bike".
It appears that the free version will only do 20 addresses
Richard M
Cardiff
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Jdsk »

Previous discussion which might include some other software:
viewtopic.php?t=142514&hilit=travelling+salesman

Jonathan
simonhill
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by simonhill »

My first stab would be to use my brain.

Get one of those cheap road atlas of UK and plan using it.

I'm sure you can work out a basic route and order using eyes and brain. Maybe use Excel to log the order. It's useful as you can add extra parameters (time, distance, ferry, etc) if necessary and easily re-order the route. Once you have done the top level planning, then use an online tool for the days or weeks cycling routes.

By the way, you can fine tune Google maps to avoid motorways, tolls, etc. I have mine set up like that when I choose car mode to keep me on paved roads (cycle option often not available where I tour).
Jdsk
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Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Jdsk »

simonhill wrote: 7 Nov 2022, 12:35am My first stab would be to use my brain.

Get one of those cheap road atlas of UK and plan using it.

I'm sure you can work out a basic route and order using eyes and brain. Maybe use Excel to log the order. It's useful as you can add extra parameters (time, distance, ferry, etc) if necessary and easily re-order the route. Once you have done the top level planning, then use an online tool for the days or weeks cycling routes.
...
That's the way that I'd do it. General route first and then add details to that. Rather than starting with the 1500 points and using that level of granularity to generate the route.

Jonathan
mad-mushroom
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Joined: 17 Aug 2022, 10:54am

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by mad-mushroom »

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PT1029
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Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by PT1029 »

I use ridewith gps (the free version). Mostly I used it for checking club rides before they go on our website.
For some non club longer trips I also use it
At the most basic, I put start and finish points with it set in Cycling mode. Recent examples for me include Oxford - Holyhead, Oxford - Weymouth, Oxford - Lymington. This tells me the likely distance and how many days. If I know some intermediate points I include those, so from the above I refined it to, Oxford - Pewsey - Lymington, Oxford - Wilton - Weymouth.(to include the planned over night stops).
That give me an approximate route, distance, number of days. I then look at the whole route and check/refine it further. So Oxford - Pewsey - Lymington became Oxford - Pewsey - Ringwood - Lymington. This was done to avoid using some of the busy roads in the Newforest, Ringwood avoids the worst of the busy roads, and provided a bridge over the busy A31. It also meant following a lovely river valley with picturesque villages.
Other refinements might be diverting onto a marginally longer route with has more staright forward/less fiddly naviagation (so say follow parallel to a river to avoid a lot of fiddly to navigate junctions in a network of roads. I use paper maps while riding - if you have a satnav/Garmin etc then fiddly navigation becomes easy to follow. I have OS maps on my phone, the screen map is useful to follow fiddly routes through towns. I limit this use due to battery life/charging issues.
More refinements will be to avoid larger towns/cities as the choice here becomes time consuming fiddly back routes, or a dash in and out on main roads. Ditto if you want to make a choice of going around or over big hills, finding bridged crossing over major roads, and/or short bits of bridleway to avoid bits of/crossings of major roads..

Road atlas pages can be useful. I got one. I compared a few (to see which ones missed out (some) minor roads), then went for the biggest scale. Not necessarily the best choice. I found en route that the biggest scale marked the villages as a dot. All roads to/from the village went to the dot. Some of the less cheap bigger scale atlases marked the vilages as a shaded grey area (like the OS maps do), the roads in the village were shown as per OS, showing the layout. Thus I could see it my turning was near the edge of the village or in the middle, and if the side turnings were at a cross roads or as 2 near by turnings. Believe me, this makes a big difference to on the road navigating.
mad-mushroom
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Joined: 17 Aug 2022, 10:54am

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by mad-mushroom »

Take a look at Cycle Travel I normally use that and the (slightly more simplistic), Cycle Streets (suggested by other) to propose & plan my routes.
Cycle Travel allows you to fiddle about & modify any suggested route, and you can also save & export maps, print routes and cue sheets.
Richard Fairhurst
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Joined: 2 Mar 2008, 4:57pm
Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

There is an undocumented, non-public feature in cycle.travel for the technically inclined which will actually reorder via points into the most efficient route (the "travelling salesman problem").

Plot via points at all the cities you want to visit, without worrying about the order. Then open up your web browser's JavaScript console (on Chrome this might be View > Developer > JavaScript Console), type rearrangeTSP() and press return. It will (probably) reorder them into an efficient route.

I have done exactly zero testing on it and it's a fairly niche feature not guaranteed to stick around, but I mention it here in case it's useful...!
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides
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MrsHJ
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Location: Dartmouth, Devon.

Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by MrsHJ »

I’ve always found that cycle.travel doesn’t need the points in order anyway.

If I set a route from say London to Dundee and then use the “add at” button (not by clicking in cities in the map) to add all my stops it will order them logically anyway even if I add them in randomly.
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Goosey
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Re: Route planning app for finding shortest routes uk

Post by Goosey »

Will cycle.travel show me the length of each stage? What I mean is, if I 'add' a point, how do I know how far that is from the start for example?
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