Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

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Cowsham
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Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Cowsham »

Riding slightly downhill towards town on a dark country road I saw a car coming up out of town - lights dipped --

I had my cateye 200 xc headlamp pointing straight down the road in front of me. It must have been blinding the driver as the headlights went to full beam.

I waited a few seconds to see if they'd put it on dip but they didn't - it was blinding me a bit. I lowered my headlamp by pushing it down a bit and the driver dipped the car lights again.

Wonder if this has been anyone else's experience.?
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Jdsk »

"Dazzling motorists":
viewtopic.php?t=101807

As for all other road users people riding HPVs should test what our lights are like from the point of view (!) of other road users.

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Cowsham
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Cowsham »

Just to add on that occasion -- On steady not blinking and also on the low setting to save battery cos the battery life on that lamp isn't near as good as my other lamps. Needed to be on steady since the road was very dark and need to see where I was going.

The one good thing about it is the rubber mount is easy to move so easy to push it down for ' dip ' --- that's the first occasion I've needed to do that and have to admit it was pointing straight ahead so may have dazzled the driver whereas I'd usually have it pointing about 15m in front on the road surface.

It's enough grip on the handle bars that it doesn't slip round under normal vibration from the road but is a bit more awkward to remove for charging etc.
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DevonDamo
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by DevonDamo »

Cowsham wrote: 10 Nov 2022, 12:14pm Riding slightly downhill towards town on a dark country road I saw a car coming up out of town - lights dipped --

I had my cateye 200 xc headlamp pointing straight down the road in front of me. It must have been blinding the driver as the headlights went to full beam.

I waited a few seconds to see if they'd put it on dip but they didn't - it was blinding me a bit. I lowered my headlamp by pushing it down a bit and the driver dipped the car lights again.

Wonder if this has been anyone else's experience.?
I've had that experience in my car, as have most of us - if you forget to dip your lights, or don't realised they're on main, oncoming drivers will put theirs on main. It's a pretty effective self-policing arrangement - most people will recognise the message and dip their lights. I've not had this from a car when I've been on my bike, but the lights I use on bike-paths and roads aren't bright enough to annoy anyone - even if I'd forgotten to dip them below the on-comer's eyeline. I do have retina-burners, but they're exclusively for riding mountain bike trails at night, or burning the retinas of the many, many, people who ride along the bike paths with their bright lights pointed in your face.
PH
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by PH »

Doesn't matter how far down you point it, with an unshaped beam you can't both see where you're going and not dazzle everyone coming the other way. Going downhill will make it worse, even with a shaped beam.
It isn't complicated, you could easily work out how far ahead your light can illuminate without dazzling and the time it takes to cover that at X mph. Or look at one of the many demonstrations on the internet, here's an example
https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/comm ... p1_Wrapper
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Cowsham
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Cowsham »

PH wrote: 10 Nov 2022, 3:46pm Doesn't matter how far down you point it, with an unshaped beam you can't both see where you're going and not dazzle everyone coming the other way. Going downhill will make it worse, even with a shaped beam.
It isn't complicated, you could easily work out how far ahead your light can illuminate without dazzling and the time it takes to cover that at X mph. Or look at one of the many demonstrations on the internet, here's an example
https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/comm ... p1_Wrapper
That'll do
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mattheus
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by mattheus »

PH wrote: 10 Nov 2022, 3:46pm Doesn't matter how far down you point it, with an unshaped beam you can't both see where you're going and not dazzle everyone coming the other way. Going downhill will make it worse, even with a shaped beam.
It isn't complicated, you could easily work out how far ahead your light can illuminate without dazzling and the time it takes to cover that at X mph. Or look at one of the many demonstrations on the internet, here's an example
https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/comm ... p1_Wrapper
Yes.

And well done Trek! (even if they're only in it to sell their New! Better! Shinier! lights - at least those lights will be good for everyone on the road, not just the purchaser)
Stevek76
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Stevek76 »

That cateye light has steady modes of 200 and 30 lumen.

If you were really on the lower 30lm mode I'd be tempted to suggest that driver was overreacting somewhat. Pretty sure 30lm in a regular cheap torch light style is less dazzling than most current car DRLs as well as what goes above the cutoff on car dipped lights.



Re the trek, nice to see more cycle lights with sensible beam patterns
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Chris Jeggo
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Chris Jeggo »

I check the effects of my headlamp by looking at how reflective road signs respond to it.
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Audax67
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Audax67 »

Cowsham wrote: 10 Nov 2022, 12:14pm Riding slightly downhill towards town on a dark country road I saw a car coming up out of town - lights dipped --

I had my cateye 200 xc headlamp pointing straight down the road in front of me. It must have been blinding the driver as the headlights went to full beam.

I waited a few seconds to see if they'd put it on dip but they didn't - it was blinding me a bit. I lowered my headlamp by pushing it down a bit and the driver dipped the car lights again.

Wonder if this has been anyone else's experience.?
IME drivers on country roads where there isn't much traffic will see a few pinpricks of light in the distance, think "Waffuq that?" and flick on full beam to have a dekko. Then, having effectively killed your night vision, the decent ones will dip and the rest won't. The Waffuq effect increases as the night advances: at [p,cl]ub-chucking-out time it may be accompanied by a swerve.

Certainly a misaligned bike headlamp will dazzle, but it doesn't have to be skew-whiff for the Waffuq effect to apply. I'm sure some of them do it on purpose.
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Cowsham
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Cowsham »

Audax67 wrote: 12 Nov 2022, 10:09am
Cowsham wrote: 10 Nov 2022, 12:14pm Riding slightly downhill towards town on a dark country road I saw a car coming up out of town - lights dipped --

I had my cateye 200 xc headlamp pointing straight down the road in front of me. It must have been blinding the driver as the headlights went to full beam.

I waited a few seconds to see if they'd put it on dip but they didn't - it was blinding me a bit. I lowered my headlamp by pushing it down a bit and the driver dipped the car lights again.

Wonder if this has been anyone else's experience.?
IME drivers on country roads where there isn't much traffic will see a few pinpricks of light in the distance, think "Waffuq that?" and flick on full beam to have a dekko. Then, having effectively killed your night vision, the decent ones will dip and the rest won't. The Waffuq effect increases as the night advances: at [p,cl]ub-chucking-out time it may be accompanied by a swerve.

Certainly a misaligned bike headlamp will dazzle, but it doesn't have to be skew-whiff for the Waffuq effect to apply. I'm sure some of them do it on purpose.
I'd say it was dazzling to the driver for four reasons 1. that's the first time that has happened, 2. I had set it a bit high to try to see the tops of the hedges cos there's quite a bit of hedge cutting atm and a flat top hedge will give me advance warning to look closer at the road to see if it's littered with thorns or not, 3. I gave the driver the benefit of the doubt by giving them time to dip as they usually would but it seemed like they were deliberately holding the high beam on ie I think the dip bulbs were still lit and 4. As soon as I lowered the lamp they let go of the flash / high beam.

I just didn't think my lamp, being on low setting, would be bright enough to merit a high beam from an oncoming car.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Tangled Metal »

I have a front light with two led lights, one a half lumen strength, fresnel lens light that has a cutoff due to it directing light to where it's needed. The second is a 1600 lumen high setting blinder. The remote has a tiny button to switch between high, medium, low and flashing setting for whichever light you are using. It also has a larger button that's easier to hit quickly to dip the blinder to just the dipped, fresnel lens led.

The good thing is the blinder option also keeps the fresnel lens light on so I get excellent distance light and keep the practical close to medium distance light. I use that only on two sections of my commute. One is a narrow mixed use path between two high walls with overhanging trees on one side. I dip the lights when other path users appear ahead of me.

The second location is in the industrial estate where there's a lot of bulk carrier and skip trucks around. That area has over foot deep potholes filled with gravel, rocks, broken bricks, etc that get moved around by traffic and rain. This means I'm cycling up and over bumps that are bigger than n my Brompton wheel at times like an off road trail you'd chose an mtb for. I go slowly to pick my way and have to cope with sudden sideways slip of front or rear wheel. I need good close to medium light to see what I'm about to go on and distance light to spot my best route. It's real fun at times knowing that you're riding unstable ridge of gravel a foot wide with the knowledge the huge puddles either side will swallow your leg to above the ankle if you get into trouble!

Anyway, I digress. My main point is dipped fresnel cut off lens and blinder when away from traffic is my recommendation for lights. Mine is a raveman pr1600. Cheap enough and really lasts well with the decent size, rechargeable battery!
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freiston
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by freiston »

I have a fork crown mounted StVZO front dynamo lamp but I used to sometimes also have a Fenix PD35 Tac (1000 lumen torch) mounted on the handlebars. Ultimately, the flood main beam of the Fenix didn't prove useful enough to warrant its continued use on the bike; mostly because the 80 lux dynamo lamp is more than adequate but also because, as far as seeing where I was going (on roads, lanes and traffic-free unlit paths), the extra brightness is wasted and just ruins my night/peripheral vision.

The most useful thing about the Fenix was giving a quick burst of light to get oncoming motorists to dip their lights.
Chris Jeggo wrote: 11 Nov 2022, 11:11pm I check the effects of my headlamp by looking at how reflective road signs respond to it.
There's a road I sometimes ride on with speed humps along and road signs towards the end. I have to admit that I get a bit of a kick out of seeing the reflective signs momentarily "light up" as my front wheel goes over the humps.

I used to have a bike light (Fenix BT20) with "shaped beam" by virtue of a fresnel panel at the top of the lens but found that whilst it seemed to give an improvement over plain lenses as far as the light on the road went, it had negligible effect in reducing down dazzle - so much that I made and fitted a long visor to it to try to reduce the dazzle but still couldn't get a satisfactory illumination without dazzle - it was this experience that pushed me to StVZO dynamo lights.
Last edited by freiston on 12 Nov 2022, 5:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by Jdsk »

I don't understand some of the terms.

Will all of my recent B+M dynamo-driven headlamps comply with "StVZO"?

Thanks

Jonathan
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freiston
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Re: Cycle lights blinding oncoming drivers

Post by freiston »

Jdsk wrote: 12 Nov 2022, 5:32pm I don't understand some of the terms.

Will all of my recent B+M dynamo-driven headlamps comply with "StVZO"?

Thanks

Jonathan
Why do I feel that that's a leading question? As far as I'm aware, all of B+M dynamo-driven headlamps comply with "StVZO" design/function requirements though I do believe that to fully comply in use (where compliance is a requirement), the beam has to be angled/aimed to particular measurements so as to follow the requirement of the StVZO regulations. iirc, the leaflet that comes with the B+M lights tells you how to aim them.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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