Recession, what Recession?

[sizbut]

No one should be surprised if Britain erupts in a fireball of rioting this winter.

Actually we whould be highly surprised, since the common feature of all previous major riots in the UK is that they occur in spring/summer - the June to August window being the most popular.

[thirdcrank]

"Rain is the best policeman" is an old saying, and ime usually right

[Dingdong]

No one should be surprised if Britain erupts in a fireball of rioting this winter.

Actually we whould be highly surprised, since the common feature of all previous major riots in the UK is that they occur in spring/summer - the June to August window being the most popular.

An estimated 4 million families will be in such dire fuel poverty, they will not be able to afford to heat their homes this winter, or keep their children adequately fed (the choice will be stark between the two). If ever there was a good reason to take to the streets and voice ones frustration, I reckon this is it. I certainly won't be surprised to see serious civil disobedience before the spring.

I take it you've never gone hungry, or lived in a house with no heating available?

[Dingdong]

A 'Swiss style' EU agreement is rumoured to be on the table. When politicos vehemently deny something, you know it must be true.

My, my, how the times are a-changing, the powers that be must be getting desperate. Britain, the worst performing economy of the G7, two years in a row..

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I thought about the rain policeman yesterday when the forecast of riots this winter was made.

Now, please everyone, have a watch of a programme called “The League of Gentlemen” in s series called “Pandora’s Box”, currently available on BBC iPlayer.

It’s one of a series examining what amount to failures caused by attempting to apply scientific rationalism to huge problems (running the USSR; nuclear deterrence etc), in this particular case the economy of the UK 1960-90, and its riveting stuff for anyone with s longish memory.

Pertinent to our musings here is the chap who, in the last five minutes of it, says that all the Keynesian and Monetarist experiments have failed because politicians “for the past 40 years” (speaking I think from c1990) “have failed to look after our industries and the education of the population”, meaning that everything is built on foundations of sand. So, 30 further years on …..

[thirdcrank]

Dingdong

You have pointed out that civil unrest has repeatedly led to regime change in France, which seems incontrovertible.

Based on a series of events which didn't achieve similar results here, you seem to be predicting that that's going to change: some sort of revolution is imminent.

Beyond that, anybody who disagrees with your prediction is assumed to support the wrongs in the current state of the state.

[CyberKnight]

No one should be surprised if Britain erupts in a fireball of rioting this winter.

Actually we whould be highly surprised, since the common feature of all previous major riots in the UK is that they occur in spring/summer - the June to August window being the most popular.

An estimated 4 million families will be in such dire fuel poverty, they will not be able to afford to heat their homes this winter, or keep their children adequately fed (the choice will be stark between the two). If ever there was a good reason to take to the streets and voice ones frustration, I reckon this is it. I certainly won't be surprised to see serious civil disobedience before the spring.

I take it you've never gone hungry, or lived in a house with no heating available?

my pay rise this year has not even covered the rise in electric/gas before the September ? price rise let alone further rises and the other high inflation rises .
The heating has been turned down 2 c even though the wife says she is always cold , we have stick up motion sensor lights in corridors to save switching lights on .Petrol we are a bit insulated from as i cycle commute but obviously we get less for our money when we do need to fill up .Food prices have increased a lot and with a family of four one of whom is autistic and has a restricted diet due to health issues we cant easily go more budget .
We are not at the stage where we are struggling , but only because of the disabilty and carers allowance we receive as without that i doubt we would still be able to afford a roof over our heads.Work has struggled for the last few years with parts shortages from covid and the forecast sales are always being downgraded which means rationalization of headcount
Cant say im looking forward to next year

[pete75]

The fact that the police had used 'hollow point bullets' did nothing to alleviate the incredible tension.

Which is a nice example of ignorance being involved in exacerbating matters. Police using hollow points is intentional and desirable and has nothing to do with whether their actions in terms of the shooting itself were appropriate. The bullet needs to be stopping in the target, not going straight through and into other things at still potentially lethal speeds.

Strange the police are using something that was banned by the Hague convention back in 1899.

[pete75]

Dingdong

You have pointed out that civil unrest has repeatedly led to regime change in France, which seems incontrovertible.

Based on a series of events which didn't achieve similar results here, you seem to be predicting that that's going to change: some sort of revolution is imminent.

Beyond that, anybody who disagrees with your prediction is assumed to support the wrongs in the current state of the state.

The civil unrest cause by the Poll Tax is given some of the credit for the fall of Thatcher.

[thirdcrank]

It may be a mistake to conflate industrial action with public (dis)order and particularly so in the present day. Obviously, it may be easier now than ever to cause maximum disruption by careful selection of the pattern of stoppages but that's not the same as rioting etc. Arguably, much of the serious disorder of the 1980s eg Broadwater Farm, was triggered by police action against a background of more general discontent so the perceived absence of police / slow police response may lead to fewer major incidents. The arrangements made to cope with the recent pandemic may offer some clues about how public bureaucracy can be modified.

Whatever, the Thatcher government survived throughout the 1980s and although the Poll Tax and associated protests ended her premiership, the rapidly cobbled together Council Tax booted the funding of local government further down the road enabling the tory party to remain in government for much of the 1990s.

[Vorpal]

The fact that the police had used 'hollow point bullets' did nothing to alleviate the incredible tension.

Which is a nice example of ignorance being involved in exacerbating matters. Police using hollow points is intentional and desirable and has nothing to do with whether their actions in terms of the shooting itself were appropriate. The bullet needs to be stopping in the target, not going straight through and into other things at still potentially lethal speeds.

Strange the police are using something that was banned by the Hague convention back in 1899.

The Hague convention bans them for international warfare, not policing. I believe the police use them because they are less likely to cause collateral damage, although this is a relatively recent (2011?) change in practice.

[pete75]

Which is a nice example of ignorance being involved in exacerbating matters. Police using hollow points is intentional and desirable and has nothing to do with whether their actions in terms of the shooting itself were appropriate. The bullet needs to be stopping in the target, not going straight through and into other things at still potentially lethal speeds.

Strange the police are using something that was banned by the Hague convention back in 1899.

The Hague convention bans them for international warfare, not policing. I believe the police use them because they are less likely to cause collateral damage, although this is a relatively recent (2011?) change in practice.

My point is that if a type of ammunition is banned for use in open warfare because of the type of wounds it produces, it shouldn't be allowed for civilian police use.

[thirdcrank]

Which is a nice example of ignorance being involved in exacerbating matters. Police using hollow points is intentional and desirable and has nothing to do with whether their actions in terms of the shooting itself were appropriate. The bullet needs to be stopping in the target, not going straight through and into other things at still potentially lethal speeds.

Strange the police are using something that was banned by the Hague convention back in 1899.

The Hague convention bans them for international warfare, not policing. I believe the police use them because they are less likely to cause collateral damage, although this is a relatively recent (2011?) change in practice.

AFAIK, this may be the adoption of a national practice. ie Chief officers used to have autonomy within the law. Otherwise, Steve76 and Vorpal have it right. I certainly knew about the explanation given by Steve, in the 1970s.

The firearms guru in West Yorkshire police - in its various incarnations - was Superintendent Colin Greenwood. For anybody interested, I see he published a book Police Tactics in Armed Operations (Paladin Press 1979) available secondhand through Amazon Market Place.

[Dingdong]

I wonder what this Swiss style EU deal will look like? Only a matter of time before the loons in the ERG capitulated. Hopefully we can get freedom of movement back as a bargaining chip. I've got me retirement abroad to think about! (Selfish git)

[Dingdong]

Strange the police are using something that was banned by the Hague convention back in 1899.

The Hague convention bans them for international warfare, not policing. I believe the police use them because they are less likely to cause collateral damage, although this is a relatively recent (2011?) change in practice.

My point is that if a type of ammunition is banned for use in open warfare because of the type of wounds it produces, it shouldn't be allowed for civilian police use.

Hollow point are not used in the US unless extreme circumstances (normally terrorism related) demand it. It's a nasty piece of weaponry.