EV owners to pay Tax.....

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by thirdcrank »

Meanwhile, the Autumn Statement AKA mini budget is scheduled for Thursday 17 November - the day after tomorrow
Stevek76
Posts: 2085
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by Stevek76 »

Carlton green wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 11:20am
I’m opposed to the idea of rationing by the size of someone’s wallet. It might end up working that way but to my mind such a situation lacks sufficient fairness. Figuratively beating people whose life and lifestyle has been shaped by and is dependant upon car use seems daft to me and will lead to a backlash. Helping people and changing their choices to tolerably better ones is the only way forward where success is next to guaranteed.
But what are you actually proposing? Bearing in mind:
Stevek76 wrote: 14 Nov 2022, 11:21pm Carrots only are not effective
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9622002200
Regarding rationing by wallet, I've never quite got the ideological inconsistency on this. The same people who wish to tax the wealthy/high income seem to suddenly have an issue when it comes to charges for driving. It's functionally just another tax, and legally, one for which any excess revenue must be reinvested in sustainable transport that we know is disproportionately used by the poorer in society.

We have extensive and robust statistics on the wealth and income profiles car usage and ownership. Any such charge would be a very efficient transfer of wealth from rich to poor, considerably more efficient than many other taxes particularly NI and VAT.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by grufty »

Apologies if this question has already been asked!

Does anyone know how the VED for EVs would be applied? Would it make sense to apply it based on Kerb weight, which might then have repercussions for the (re)classification of ICE vehicles?
The up side for this system could be an end to the "cyclists don't pay road tax" rants.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by thirdcrank »

grufty wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 1:54pm Apologies if this question has already been asked!

Does anyone know how the VED for EVs would be applied? Would it make sense to apply it based on Kerb weight, which might then have repercussions for the (re)classification of ICE vehicles?
The up side for this system could be an end to the "cyclists don't pay road tax" rants.
I've no idea how this will be applied and I suspect details will eventually emerge as the spin is analysed in detail. Just now, the BBC has this
Electric cars, vans and motorcycles to pay road taxes from April 2025
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63555313

I can't see how that will have the result predicted in the bit I've highlighted
==========================================================
A bit more detail emerging already, but I bet there will eventually be more devil in the detail

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by Dingdong »

I wonder how long before they extend taxation to Electric Assist Bikes?
hemo
Posts: 1438
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by hemo »

Dingdong wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 5:24pm I wonder how long before they extend taxation to Electric Assist Bikes?
If a pedelec they won't , otherwise they will have to lump in pushbikes as well. Both are classed the same and have the same rights.
wirral_cyclist
Posts: 1024
Joined: 17 May 2010, 9:25pm
Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by wirral_cyclist »

I'd pay £1 a kilo for a bike (probably worth the admin?) as long as private cars also pay £1 a kilo.
hemo
Posts: 1438
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by hemo »

I won't pay a penny as a pedelec is deemed to be a push bike by law and they won't be VED'd as it would kill off cycling just as would compulsory hats.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by pete75 »

Carlton green wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 11:20am
I’m opposed to the idea of rationing by the size of someone’s wallet. It might end up working that way but to my mind such a situation lacks sufficient fairness. Figuratively beating people whose life and lifestyle has been shaped by and is dependant upon car use seems daft to me and will lead to a backlash. Helping people and changing their choices to tolerably better ones is the only way forward where success is next to guaranteed.
Everything is rationed by wallet size. Housing, clothing, cars,transport, bikes, food, education, health care etc etc.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by pete75 »

thirdcrank wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 3:46pm
grufty wrote: 17 Nov 2022, 1:54pm Apologies if this question has already been asked!

Does anyone know how the VED for EVs would be applied? Would it make sense to apply it based on Kerb weight, which might then have repercussions for the (re)classification of ICE vehicles?
The up side for this system could be an end to the "cyclists don't pay road tax" rants.
I've no idea how this will be applied and I suspect details will eventually emerge as the spin is analysed in detail. Just now, the BBC has this
Electric cars, vans and motorcycles to pay road taxes from April 2025
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63555313

I can't see how that will have the result predicted in the bit I've highlighted
==========================================================
A bit more detail emerging already, but I bet there will eventually be more devil in the detail

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321
May not happen. It all depends on what Rachel Reeves thinks of the idea.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pwa
Posts: 17368
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by pwa »

I was a bit surprised that the tax on EV use will apply to cars registered from 2017 onwards, and not just those from 2025 onwards. So there is no incentive to buy early to beat the deadline. Apart from new cars in their first year, which will have a reduced rate for that first year, the tax will be at £165 a year.
deeferdonk
Posts: 166
Joined: 11 May 2019, 2:50pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by deeferdonk »

Makes me smile to see the "no such thing as road tax" come up again.

The way i see it ,is if VED is commonly referred to as "road tax" it does exist. Its still not a sensible argument against cyclists and an official titled road tax hasn't existed since Winston Churchill, but its common usage in the English language, everyone knows what you're talking about, so you're not wrong to call it that. And when they inevitably call the new tax that includes EVs a road tax, you haven't instantly lost your main argument that it doesn't exist.

It just seems like saying that there is no such thing as Bob, or Bill, only Robert and William. If everyone calls him Bob - he is Bob!

I'm sure if you referred to it as VED in everyday conversation, people will think you need to go to a clinic.

I once got "told off" in a forum for calling a cars side mirrors "wing mirrors". Sure, the current attachment point on the car doesn't match the etymology of the term, but :roll:
geocycle
Posts: 2177
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 9:46am

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by geocycle »

There needs to be a lot of thinking about transport taxes. Tax on fuel currently brings in £30 Bn or more and that will need to be replaced somehow. VED is a drop in the ocean relative to the cost of an EV so I’m not sure why manufacturers are saying it will curb demand. I suspect we will see a return of road tax through some sort of road pricing scheme.
User avatar
PedallingSquares
Posts: 548
Joined: 13 Mar 2022, 11:01am

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by PedallingSquares »

geocycle wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 2:06pm There needs to be a lot of thinking about transport taxes. Tax on fuel currently brings in £30 Bn or more and that will need to be replaced somehow. VED is a drop in the ocean relative to the cost of an EV so I’m not sure why manufacturers are saying it will curb demand. I suspect we will see a return of road tax through some sort of road pricing scheme.
I've often though road tolls would be on the agenda.First motorways then.....
The network is being set up for this with the so-called Smart motorway network.The thing is it's quite reasonable in France but I fear the rip-off UK Govt would really take the mick :roll:
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: EV owners to pay Tax.....

Post by thirdcrank »

A couple of decades ago, road charging looked to be imminent. I predicted that the then new-fangled satnavs would offer navigation by the cheapest route ie onto minor roads to the detriment of cyclists. It didn't happen. Fuel taxes were promoted and the price escalator was created but never really implemented.

SMART motorways are turning out to be not as smart as they like to think they are, in that the technology to detect the presence of vehicles seems dodgy, that's before any attempt to identify individual vehicles. The trend also seems to be in the other direction in that gantries across all lanes have been replaced by single units. Then, the reports seem to suggest that vehicle detection by camera is poor because of a poor DVLA database and sporadic action against cloned or dodgy reg plates.

Just about anything is possible, given time, but I don't detect any enthusiasm in government to get on with this.
Post Reply