Decided to install mudguards.

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Jupestar
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Decided to install mudguards.

Post by Jupestar »

First time installing (and riding with ) Mudguards.

After a few wet days, I've decided to run tougher tyres and guards through the winter, i'm also going geared for a while (IGH).

The back went on smoothly. It's a tight fit, but it works.
PXL_20221119_073522882.jpg
The front less so.

You can see from the first attempt the guard was coming out the fork at an angle. All the fettling in the world was not correcting this. Lower profile tyres would work. And if I leaned over while riding rand put a bit of sideways pressure on the guard they had clearance..
PXL_20221118_162746550.jpg
These guards are secondhand, not sure what they came off. I thought about sawing the front off, but in the end moved the guard back out if the fork.

I've used a cable tie to attach it to the fork bridge. And the Mudguard now goes further round the wheel.
PXL_20221119_073144653.jpg
Is this likely to be too low and cause problems. It's solid so I'm not worried about that, just that it's about 8inchs further down the wheel, and I don't have the 8inchs going under the fork and out the front.

The other solution is smaller guards and potentially a smaller tyre on the front. These are 45mm guards on a 32mm (profiled tyre) it's pushing the limits of what fits and the fact it wants to bend through the fork is not helping... I'm trying to make fit what I have in the house, before purchasing..
Last edited by Jupestar on 19 Nov 2022, 8:35am, edited 1 time in total.
peetee
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Re: Decided to install muguards.

Post by peetee »

If the guard is plastic you can pursuade it through the gap in the fork or alter the curvature by heating it with a hairdryer or, if the clearance isn’t there at all, give it a trim. I trimmed away a rear guard to avoid an 11 speed front mech with a Dremmel tool. That way there were no nasty edges or saw-cut angles that might have fractured in later use.
Last edited by peetee on 22 Nov 2022, 9:17am, edited 1 time in total.
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rjb
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by rjb »

Cut the excess length off the stay and top off with a cover. You don't want to spike your leg.
I've seen riders cut the nose off the front mudguard and reattach it with a L bracket to the front of the fork and the remaining length attached to the rear of the fork. Short length of duck tape used to fill the gap. :wink:
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thirdcrank
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by thirdcrank »

IIRC, there are earlier threads about improvising the fitting of mudguards.

It's sometimes possible to put a bolt up through the front guard into the steerer tube of the fork. (It may need to be a very flat-headed bolt. ) Years ago SJSC and probably other frame builders included a threaded tube in the steerer to enable this. I've posted before that I got satisfactory results using an old rubber (?) handlebar end plug which had an expander fitting. I shoved the plug up into the steerer then put the expander screw through the guard + washer and tightened it up.

It's not clear to me from the pics if your fork crown is drilled to take a brake bolt but if it is, that is probably best. Fix the main bit of the guard behind the fork crown using what I think of as a standard fitting then to something similar with a shorter bit in front. Once upon a time it used to be possible to buy a "spearpoint extension" to do just that but I fear those days are gone. Things do come round again - including mudguards on bikes
Last edited by thirdcrank on 19 Nov 2022, 9:35am, edited 1 time in total.
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531colin
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by 531colin »

The front bit of the front guard is to keep spray off the front of the bike and rider.
The bottom of the guard where you have it will catch on kerbs and vegetation.
My preferred arrangement is to have the front of the guard "as designed" and to extend the bottom with a mudflap, which keeps your feet and drivetrain (relatively) dry/clean.

ImageIMG_5216 by 531colin, on Flickr

To be fair, I can't see anything wrong with your front guard in your first picture.
However, if the guard goes wonky where it passes through the fork, you can usually correct this by pushing the guard "past" where you want it to finish up, this bends the fixing bracket so the guard sits straight(er).

Edit....if the front of the guard is too high, you need to move the guard up the first pair of stays a bit
thirdcrank
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by thirdcrank »

531colin wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 9:35am The front bit of the front guard is to keep spray off the front of the bike and rider.
The bottom of the guard where you have it will catch on kerbs and vegetation.
My preferred arrangement is to have the front of the guard "as designed" and to extend the bottom with a mudflap, which keeps your feet and drivetrain (relatively) dry/clean.

ImageIMG_5216 by 531colin, on Flickr

To be fair, I can't see anything wrong with your front guard in your first picture.
However, if the guard goes wonky where it passes through the fork, you can usually correct this by pushing the guard "past" where you want it to finish up, this bends the fixing bracket so the guard sits straight(er).
That's the front fork, rather than the garden fork :wink:
slowster
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by slowster »

The mudguards appear to have a squared off (or trapezoidal) profile, and a unicrown fork with small radius curve to the underside of the crown will force that design of mudguard to be positioned a few mm lower than a mudguard with a round profile, such as SKS Chromoplastic and Bluemels standard mudguards in the 45mm size.

If it were me, I would buy a pair of SKS Chromoplastic or Bluemels 45mm mudguards, or I would try heat as suggested above to improve the fit of the existing mudguard under the crown. Then fit a mudflap as 531colin advises. There have been threads on DIY mudflaps, and you can also buy rather fancy aftermarket ones from the likes of https://rawmudflap.uk/.
PH
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by PH »

It's hard to tell from your side on photos how much space there is under the crown. I'd measure the tyre to crown without the guard, IMO it needs at least 15mm and preferably more. That's 10mm under the guard and 5mm for fitting and that's only possible if you can maximise the space which might take modification to guard or bracket, or as slowster suggests a guard with a different profile..
If you don't have that much space, I'd rather go down a tyre size than compromise the guards, though opinions may differ.
thirdcrank
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by thirdcrank »

The big difference between the old Bluemels guards which were Bakelite (?) was that they shattered very easily while chromoplastic doesn't. The pop-out stay fixings help but if you get something tangled in the front wheel, you don't want it jamming under the fork crown. And you don't want to learn that going over the handlebars
jimlews
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by jimlews »

thirdcrank wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 12:45pm The old Bluemels guards which were Bakelite (?) ...
Celluloid and as you say, brittle (and highly flammable).
thirdcrank
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by thirdcrank »

Ah Yes! I reemember it well (Maurice Chevalier??)
mattsccm
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by mattsccm »

Set up tip. Get the rear rammed up against the chain stay bridge unless you have mega clearance. It will find its own place behind the BB but if it doesn't want to go uuse a small bit of metal (I use Meccano) to join the end of the guard to the frame. That small big of fresh air created won't be an issue.
At the front. Start by putting it up against the fork crown. You may be able to mount the bracket behind or in front of the fork.I prefer in front as it give better coverage and you extend every mudguard know to man anyway. Then use the stays to set it up. Bend the mounting bracket to get the front section to match the curvature of the tyre. In a perfect world the guard matches the curvature ecatly on both wheels and is identical. Just looks better. Use something flexible like damp course membrane for a big front flap other wise the guard isn't much use. At the back the same but even longer. The reflective semi flexible plastic wrapped around power and phone line poles is perfect for this.
Your front set up is awful. As it is it is a flaming menace.
Treat the stays on each side differently if you have to use different fork mounts to deal with the discs. Many people space the left hand plastic bit on the front stays out to clear the caliper. Bit of pipe works, so does a piece of pen. I use an old 5.56mm blank cartridge.
All brackets are designed to be bent to fit. Assuming they just go straight on is an error.
Jupestar
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by Jupestar »

Thanks for all the replies. Added some responses below..
peetee wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 8:28am heating it with a hairdryer or, if the clearance isn’t there at all, give it a trim
Never thought about trimming the width down as it goes through the fork. That could help.. hairdryer as well. Although they are reasonably substantial.
rjb wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 8:52am Cut the excess length off the stay and top off with a cover. You don't want to spike your leg
I've done this on the back, cause I'm happy with it. Not the front yet. Will cut and cap when I happy it's set.
rjb wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 8:52am front mudguard and reattach it with a L bracket to the front of the fork and the remaining length attached to the rear
That would work. I just need the l brackets. Wish I hadn't thrown out the reflectors.
thirdcrank wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 9:33am It's not clear to me from the pics if your fork crown is drilled to take a brake bolt but if it is
.
It is, in the first photo it is bolted, but really I would need two L brackets to force it up both sides of the fork.
thirdcrank wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 9:33am It may need to be a very flat-headed bolt.
I have a very flat headed frame bolt which I used with a washer into the seat stays (as I wanted to use the clip from the rear on the front). But it did not give the clearance. The same bolt and washer is being used on the chainstay fine..
531colin wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 9:35am The bottom of the guard where you have it will catch on kerbs and vegetation.
Thanks it was my concern that it was too low..
531colin wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 9:35am To be fair, I can't see anything wrong with your front guard in your first picture.
It's leaning over to the right, and rubbing the tyre. If it would stay central it would work. But its stubborn and won't stay.
slowster wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 12:22pm I would buy a pair of SKS Chromoplastic or Bluemels 45mm mudguards
Trying to avoid buying more plastic and ultimately contributing more to landfill. These ones were being scrapped, and I think they can be bodged.. but before I go about with the hacksaw I'm looking for a blueprint...
PH wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 12:37pm I'd measure the tyre to crown without the guard, IMO it needs at least 15mm
Just measured it. 10mm.
PH wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 12:37pm I'd rather go down a tyre size than compromise the guard
They are 32mm...not really keen to go any smaller.. I do have some 28s but they are slick TT tyres. I think this will be last resort.
mattsccm wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 2:31pm You may be able to mount the bracket behind or in front of the fork
Tried both, think I need a bracket on both..
mattsccm wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 2:31pm Your front set up is awful.
Yep... It's currently a bad bodge!
mattsccm wrote: 19 Nov 2022, 2:31pm Many people space the left hand plastic
I did space it, but when I moved the stays down the spacers were not needed so I took them out.



I think I'm going to try
1) trimming the width as it goes through the fork.
2) Being more agressive to bend the front over the tyre.
3) use some heat.

Failing that I'll cut it - using a shorter version of what I currently have on the rear and see if I can fit the front just by bolting it to the fork and hoping it's doesn't flap about.
slowster
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by slowster »

I appreciate that you want to use these mudguards if at all possible rather than buying more plastic/adding to landfill. However, I trimmed an SKS Chromoplastic mudguard to improve the fit under a very curved fork crown, and it proved to be a bad decision. The mudguard was the old style Chromoplastic type with a squared off profile, and that profile meant that it was necessary to trim up to and including the squared off shoulders of the mudguard in order to be able to raise the mudguard and improve the clearance. What I found was that cutting off that much resulted in a loss of rigidity and the front of the mudguard being prone to move and rattle with road vibration.

To state the obvious, with the curved profile the whole cross section of the mudguard contributes to its rigidity. With the squared off profile removing the sides up to shoulders leaves just a flat cross section, which is too flexible. Although I tolerated the rattle from the unsupported front bit of the mudguard for some time, eventually I got so annoyed by it that I bought a set of Bluemels mudguards in the same width but with a curved profile. The Bluemels mudguards were a perfect fit under the crown, improved the clearance even more, and needed no trimming. My trimmed mudguard is now just a piece of waste plastic, which is what you are seeking to avoid.

You state that the fork crown clearance without a mudguard is only 10mm. I think that is too little for a mudguard to be safely fitted: the risk of mud or other detritus being picked up by the tyre and jamming at the fork crown would be too high. In your shoes I would check what the clearance would be with a 28mm on the front.
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TrevA
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Re: Decided to install mudguards.

Post by TrevA »

After years of making my own mudguard flaps, I bought a Rawflap (https://rawmudflap.uk) last year. Quite easy to fit, though you do have to take a drill to your guard. I used to use old cut down 2 litre milk bottles riveted to the guard , which did the job but weren’t very durable, so had to be redone every few months. The Rawflap is stiffer and more durable.
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