Witnessing the end of the NHS

[Jdsk]

Assisted dying isn't a particularly important issue for the future of any of the NHSs.

But a lot of money is spent on care in the final few months of life in ways that no-one, including the patient, would choose.

Many doctors with experience of terminal care put considerable effort into working out how they'd like to be cared for themselves, and it often includes trying to make sure that they aren't sent to hospital as an emergency. This isn't easy, especially if you don't know your way around the system.

Fortunately there's lots of good advice available. It does require the recognition that you're going to die, and it usually involves asking for help.

Healthcare providers, including the NHS, should then observe the patient's wishes. But they need to be told what those are. And, as always, the more fragmented the system of provision the harder it is to deliver what's wanted and needed.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...

Yes. And many similar data are available for those who want to study the effects of making more resources available.

That isn't surprising. What is surprising is the frequency with which the opposite is asserted, often accompanied by the canonical but nonexistent "bottomless pit".

Jonathan

[Jules59]

Assisted dying isn't a particularly important issue for the future of any of the NHSs.

But a lot of money is spent on care in the final few months of life in ways that no-one, including the patient, would choose.

Many doctors with experience of terminal care put considerable effort into working out how they'd like to be cared for themselves, and it often includes trying to make sure that they aren't sent to hospital as an emergency. This isn't easy, especially if you don't know your way around the system.

Fortunately there's lots of good advice available. It does require the recognition that you're going to die, and it usually involves asking for help.

Healthcare providers, including the NHS, should then observe the patient's wishes. But they need to be told what those are. And, as always, the more fragmented the system of provision the harder it is to deliver what's wanted and needed.

Jonathan

My colleagues and I often discussed how we would write "Advanced Directives " to be used at an appropriate time, so that interventions we didn't want, didnt happen by default.

[djnotts]

Assisted dying isn't a particularly important issue for the future of any of the NHSs.

But a lot of money is spent on care in the final few months of life in ways that no-one, including the patient, would choose.

Many doctors with experience of terminal care put considerable effort into working out how they'd like to be cared for themselves, and it often includes trying to make sure that they aren't sent to hospital as an emergency. This isn't easy, especially if you don't know your way around the system.

Fortunately there's lots of good advice available. It does require the recognition that you're going to die, and it usually involves asking for help.

Healthcare providers, including the NHS, should then observe the patient's wishes. But they need to be told what those are. And, as always, the more fragmented the system of provision the harder it is to deliver what's wanted and needed.

Jonathan

My colleagues and I often discussed how we would write "Advanced Directives " to be used at an appropriate time, so that interventions we didn't want, didnt happen by default.

"Advanced Directives" don't address the euthanasia issue, being merely an absence of treatment. It is also difficult to bring them into play at the key moments. I have mine lodged on one of my case notes, but it wouldn't be seen if I were taken in as an emergency or to a different hospital/department. My daughter holds a copy and well aware that for it to be ignored is now a criminal as well as civil offence.
Once one is told no treatment, palliative care (a joke) only, that is when an early exit should be offered.

[Debs]

[Debs]

[Bonzo Banana]

...

Yes. And many similar data are available for those who want to study the effects of making more resources available.

That isn't surprising. What is surprising is the frequency with which the opposite is asserted, often accompanied by the canonical but nonexistent "bottomless pit".

Jonathan

Surely that is far too simple an analysis. You have to look at the full picture, the UK's national debt has just kept increasing over time so more interest is being paid providing less finances for important services. We are a very moronic people economically. We keep buying imported goods and services and create a huge trading deficit leading to more borrowing and then we complain how awful our politicians are (and they are awful) but we ignore the fact the damage is caused by UK citizens. We sent huge funds to the EU, paid more for goods while in the EU and had a huge trading deficit with the EU and destroyed huge amounts of our industry because we couldn't compete in Europe plus the government of either side sold assets to balance the books. Anyway we left the EU with about £1.8 trillion of debt and then the pandemic hit.

There is no way services will improve until politicians manage the economy better and that means protecting us from ourselves i.e. returning to a trading surplus and paying back our huge debts. However even that is not something that can be achieved in the short term we probably have 50 years of debts to pay back and we face much greater levels of poverty. The current generations of people are pretty vile, they expect our children and grandchildren and maybe great grandchildren to pay for our lifestyle of today however now those debts have caught up with us much sooner because of the pandemic.

Of course the NHS will be scaled back and the police will have less resources etc. That is the reality of a country close to needing a IMF bailout. You only have to look around to see the absence of factories and wealth generating infrastructure.

I've known people who buy new cars ever 3 years, have frequent foreign holidays and then complain about politicians and why the country is doing badly. These people are complete and utter morons when it comes to even basic economics. That's the problem the country is full of people like that, always looking to blame others rather than look at themselves.

[reohn2]

Rishi's meeting with private heal companies:- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/electi ... 91W98NK1sD

[Debs]

Bonzo Banano wrote:

We sent huge funds to the EU, paid more for goods while in the EU and had a huge trading deficit with the EU and destroyed huge amounts of our industry because we couldn't compete in Europe plus the government of either side sold assets to balance the books.

The EU membership fee was a bargain compared to the massive £800m in losses per week now we're out.
We also pay a lot more for goods now we're out of the EU
Being out of the EU has destroyed huge amounts of out industry, and is still ongoing.
Brexit; the gift that keeps on giving.

The main two underhand and criminal motives of leaving were the easy avoidance of EU tax evasion laws, and to privatise the NHS. Both of which is happening on an unprecedented scale with Brexit Buccaneering Billionaires stuffing their offshore accounts with their ill-gotten loot of our hard earned tax pounds.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 43018.html

[djnotts]

Debs nails it neatly: "The main two underhand and criminal motives of leaving were the easy avoidance of EU tax evasion laws, and to privatise the NHS. Both of which is happening on an unprecedented scale..."

Pretty much all that needs be said about the brexit disaster.

[reohn2]

Debs
Spot on!

It truly is incredible that anyone but the rich think the UK is better off out,it's been proven times out of number the UK is without doubt far,far worse off.

[Mick F]

It's not Brexit that's the problem, it's the Tory government.

Fix that, and the rest of the country and the economy will heal as will the NHS.

[Cugel]

It's not Brexit that's the problem, it's the Tory government.

Fix that, and the rest of the country and the economy will heal as will the NHS.

Ak Mick - you can't seem to get that Brexit is inherently a current Tory party project for obtaining as much plutocratic power for their small cabal as they can muster. The two aren't separable, dear boy!

There was never any other reason for Brexit other than the current Tory plutocrats' efforts to become effective dictators unhampered by either another polity (the EU) or their once-citizens, now-subjects (thee & me).

Get rid of the last remnants of old fashioned Tory (Cameroony and his ilk) to establish the New Aristocracy of Greedymen capitalists in C19th Victorian style. This was the objective. It worked, because the mass media told just the right stories to dafties desperate for a scapegoat to blame for their various feelings of no longer being Great Britains better than all them foreigners begining at Calais.

Cugel

[Jdsk]

It's not Brexit that's the problem, it's the Tory government.

Fix that, and the rest of the country and the economy will heal as will the NHS.

In health and social care the biggest effect so far of the UK Leaving the EU has been to decrease the availability of staff. It's a big effect, it started before we Left, and it's very well documented and studied. And it's free and simple to find the evidence.

Jonathan

PS: There's a long list of other adverse effects.

[Debs]