Strong Rear Hub

[Jim77]

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a strong rear hub (road), especially in the drive side flange? I have crack/broken two Shimano 105 hubs in this location, so need to invest in something far more robust.

Thanks in advance!

Regards

Jim

[alexnharvey]

Can you post some pictures or describe more details of how they cracked? How was the wheel built and how many spokes? Shimano hub bodies are forged so are more robust than most.

[Jim77]

Hand built wheel, 36 spokes. Sorry not sure how to upload pictures?

[simonineaston]

screenshot of helpful advice

[NickJP]

I suspect the problem is partly due to a) having 36 holes in a small flange hub, which places the spoke holes pretty close together, leaving less metal to resist the pull of the spokes, and b) modern hubs being made with higher strength but less ductile alloys than older hubs, and so the flanges are more likely to break rather than just deform slightly.

You could look for hubs with a slightly larger flange. We've been using Phil Wood hubs on tandems for over 40 years and have yet to break one. The flanges on them are ~10mm greater diameter than those on Shimano hubs. But they're a) fiendishly expensive, and b) when I look at their website, all the rear hubs show as sold out: https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/coll ... -hub-parts.

The White Industries MI5 is another hub that has larger flanges, and I've used those also without problem.

[rogerzilla]

This suggests Shimano hubs ain't what they used to be. Hub flanges should never, ever break.

I can only tell you what to avoid: anything NOT forged, which includes the boutique CNC-machined hubs. I broke a Goldtec flange - road salt had something to do with it.

[rareposter]

Hand built wheel, 36 spokes. Sorry not sure how to upload pictures?

This is sounding like a wheelbuilding issue rather than a hub issue to be blunt.
For one hub to go, I'd put that down to all sorts of factors, for 2 identical hubs to go in the same place is either a hub fault or a wheelbuilding fault.

Since you pretty much never hear of Shimano hubs failing in that way, we're left with the wheelbuilding... Who built them, what's the lacing pattern and the spoke type?

Also, when the first hub failed, I assume from your post that you bought an identical rear hub and had it laced up - was it built into the same rim and did it use the old spokes or brand new ones?

We really need pictures...

As for your original question of what wheels to get... What bike is it for, what type of riding, disc or rim brake...?

[Jim77]

Screenshot 2022-11-20 at 22.23.19.png

Thank you - I have posted a picture.

[Jim77]

Hand built wheel, 36 spokes. Sorry not sure how to upload pictures?

This is sounding like a wheelbuilding issue rather than a hub issue to be blunt.
For one hub to go, I'd put that down to all sorts of factors, for 2 identical hubs to go in the same place is either a hub fault or a wheelbuilding fault.

Since you pretty much never hear of Shimano hubs failing in that way, we're left with the wheelbuilding... Who built them, what's the lacing pattern and the spoke type?

Also, when the first hub failed, I assume from your post that you bought an identical rear hub and had it laced up - was it built into the same rim and did it use the old spokes or brand new ones?

We really need pictures...

As for your original question of what wheels to get... What bike is it for, what type of riding, disc or rim brake...?

Thanks for your response - I should say that I am a heavy rider at 18stone so that may have something to do with it. The failure was on two separate shimano 105 hubs in two separate wheels. That is not the rebuilt one. I have only posted a picture of the first one (which was more severe).

I am looking for a rim brake rear hub.

The lacing pattern was three cross and from memory the spokes were Sapim double butted.

[Jim77]

This suggests Shimano hubs ain't what they used to be. Hub flanges should never, ever break.

I can only tell you what to avoid: anything NOT forged, which includes the boutique CNC-machined hubs. I broke a Goldtec flange - road salt had something to do with it.

Thank you for your advice.

[Jim77]

I suspect the problem is partly due to a) having 36 holes in a small flange hub, which places the spoke holes pretty close together, leaving less metal to resist the pull of the spokes, and b) modern hubs being made with higher strength but less ductile alloys than older hubs, and so the flanges are more likely to break rather than just deform slightly.

You could look for hubs with a slightly larger flange. We've been using Phil Wood hubs on tandems for over 40 years and have yet to break one. The flanges on them are ~10mm greater diameter than those on Shimano hubs. But they're a) fiendishly expensive, and b) when I look at their website, all the rear hubs show as sold out: https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/coll ... -hub-parts.

The White Industries MI5 is another hub that has larger flanges, and I've used those also without problem.

Thanks for your advance - I was looking at the T11 from White Industries which I have heard is very strong as well.

I don’t mind paying a large amount, if the hub will lasts a long time. Do you know the warranty on Phil Wood hubs?

[alexnharvey]

There are some reports of Shimano 105 hubs failing on the drive side because the freehub is recessed too deeply into the hub body, leaving the flange undercut and unsupported. You can see the issue in the picture at this bike gremlin link, where the free hub recess leaves a sharp internal edge that fails due to fatigue. I saw the issue diagnosed and explained better on pardo http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-195.html

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/10210/brok ... parts/#1.2

viewtopic.php?t=87904

Despite this issue i would not give up on Shimano hubs. As you will see if you start searching for hub flange failures, it is an issue that affects all manufacturers at times. You might consider one of their MTB hubs?

[cromo]

Looking at the pictures now posted, could corrosion also be playing a part here?

[Jim77]

There are some reports of Shimano 105 hubs failing on the drive side because the freehub is recessed too deeply into the hub body, leaving the flange undercut and unsupported. You can see the issue in the picture at this bike gremlin link, where the free hub recess leaves a sharp internal edge that fails due to fatigue. I saw the issue diagnosed and explained better on pardo http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-195.html

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/10210/brok ... parts/#1.2

viewtopic.php?t=87904

Despite this issue i would not give up on Shimano hubs. As you will see if you start searching for hub flange failures, it is an issue that affects all manufacturers at times. You might consider one of their MTB hubs?

Thanks for your reply - I would consider a MTB hub but I am still old fashioned and using rim brakes!

[iandusud]

How about a tandem hub? This one is available in 135mm OLN. I think these are pretty much indestructible, and will certainly cope with your weight as they are made for use with two riders.
https://www.tandems.co.uk/m11b0s32p87/O ... nd-48-hole
This is what we have on our tandem which copes with our combined weights of around 150kg plus 30kg of luggage and 25kg of bike.