Setting up a bike for extreme hill climbing

[roubaixtuesday]

I do wonder if the Mercian that I have might fit the bill? It's on a 3x10 Ultegra groupset, with 52/42/30 on the front. Could I go a little smaller than 30 for the inside chainring? It's 11-30 on the back.

Back in the UK, I tended to climb more out of the saddle as the hills were much steeper than here in Sweden. Now, I rarely exceed 10%, and seated is always faster. If I can maintain a seated position with a highish cadence, I will be able to climb for much longer. Getting out of the saddle is quite energy consuming at 105kg.

The Mercian isn't hugely stiff though compared to the more modern bikes I have. I'm not sure how it'd be on the extremely long descents.

That would be perfect. I'd put 46/36/24 or similar on it - I have Sora 9 speed running that combo, albeit with an 11-36.

[Cugel]

I do wonder if the Mercian that I have might fit the bill? It's on a 3x10 Ultegra groupset, with 52/42/30 on the front. Could I go a little smaller than 30 for the inside chainring? It's 11-30 on the back.

Back in the UK, I tended to climb more out of the saddle as the hills were much steeper than here in Sweden. Now, I rarely exceed 10%, and seated is always faster. If I can maintain a seated position with a highish cadence, I will be able to climb for much longer. Getting out of the saddle is quite energy consuming at 105kg.

The Mercian isn't hugely stiff though compared to the more modern bikes I have. I'm not sure how it'd be on the extremely long descents.

That would be perfect. I'd put 46/36/24 or similar on it - I have Sora 9 speed running that combo, albeit with an 11-36.

You can't put a ring smaller than 30t on those Ultegra chainsets. (I'm assuming it's a relatively modern one with the 24mm axle). But you could mount a whole new chainset if you change the BB to a square taper or some other standard that allows chainsets with smaller inner rings. (I'm assuming the Mercian has a threaded BB).

Spa triple chainsets with a matching square taper axle are inexpensive and good quality. I used one (46/36/26) on a Specialized Tricross for a while and it provided some fine spinning low gears for the Welsh hills, as well as the ability to use a relatively close ratio cassette (13-30). (A bottom of 26 front and 30 rear). It's still going to cost around £100 to make the change, though.

Cugel

[PT1029]

Triples are in theory a good way to go, whether you can sensibly navigate your way through numerous part incompatibilities in an economic manner is an entirely different question!
Don't forget having sorted the up hill to sort the down hill: -
Don't just keep the brakes on, do pulsed braking to give things a chance to cool down a bit before they over heat. Always worth a stop part way down to admire the view and let the brakes cool off a bit,

[Tigerbiten]

I think the two best combo's for hill climbing are ....
Either a 48/36/24 triple and a 12-36 9 speed block.
Or a 44/28 sub-compact double and a 11-42 SRAM 11 speed block.
Both are almost identical having an 18"-108" 6x gear range and a very even stepping through the gears.
You can go wider but it means adding hub gears into the setup.

I find the secret to long hill climbing is to spin slower, lower your cadence without altering the pressure on the pedals.
You will climb slower but this drops your power out which is both easier on legs/heart but also stops you overheating.
If done right it's only if/when you run out of gears down will you need to get out of the saddle
But silly steep stuff is more a balancing act.
Not only side to side but also front to back as others have mentioned.

Luck .........

[Dingdong]

I've done a fair few Alpine passes and big Pyrenean climbs, a lot of them 10-25km in length, many of them 10%+. My twopenny worth is a little different from what's been said upthread, but here goes! I've also done some of the 'Raids' which are organised days, sometimes with several big passes on them, back to back and theyre great craic, just maybe not in the height of summer!

I find very small, twiddly gears next to useless, unless carrying heavy loads. You don't say if you'll be carrying bags, but from what you've said i've a feeling you won't be. My experience of long climbs, especially the Spanish and French ones is to find a gear you can pedal at a good cadence in without 'spinning' too much and stay in it. On climbs like Col d'Izoard for instance I would normally max out a comfortable cadence on a 36t up front and a 27t rear, still leaving me 3 gears to my grannie, which would be a 34. For the first few miles, when I'm feeling strongest I might even be rolling a 23/24t rear at a slower cadence.

Unless you are a commited climber, I'd also suggest doing the climb in 'chunks', 1-2 miles at a time, and a having a good breather/water stop between. I also find that after two days or so, your legs definitely get used to the bigger climbs and by the end of the week, even the big monsters don't look so intimidating and they can be tackled in one go.

Firstly, there's the elephant in the room, your weight! I'm normally 88-92kg, depending on the time of year, but if it were me looking to bag some big climbs, I'd definitely want to be in good shape and leaner before I set sail. You don't say how tall you are, but 105kg is a lot of mass to be lugging through vertical space. You will probably find losing 5-7kg will make a tremendous difference to your climbing ability, and if you're not carrying bags, I'd definitely be looking to shave a few KG off the bike. If your holiday is more than a month away, losing a kilogramme per week is relatively straightforward with calorie control and increase in exercise/intensity.

Secondly, slimming down your bike. This can de done quite cheaply if you shop around online/buy second hand. Lightweight tyres, like Continental Grand Prix 5000, good lightweight saddle, carbon post and stem, and Look Keo pedals will take a chunk off, and if you want another 1-1.5kg saved, a good set of lightweight wheels. The 8-10kg saved between your body mass/bike will make a huge difference and perhaps transform the experience.

I suppose it depends if this is a 'one off ' or if you would like to have a bike you can use regularly for this type of cycling. My go-to bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12, which I picked up pretty cheaply as a frame only (£180). It's astounding and stiff on big climbs, and I've kitted it out with a mix of older Dura ace and an Ultegra compact. The Dura Ace brakes are best in the business for caliper brakes and I've never felt anything other than safe, even at speeds of 100km/h plus on the big downhills. It's shod with an older pair of Mavic Kysirium ( bought for £100 locally)which really get the power down. All in, with modest Carbon parts it's 6.6kg. Which is 4kg lighter than my normal touring bike, unladen. I very rarely need to get out of the saddle with this set up, especially when I'm at my 'best' weight of 88kg.

This isn't just a 'hill special' bike build. I'll use it a lot in the summer months and it's generally my go-to holiday bike if I'm going abroad (it's not super fragile carbon, and has stood the test of a dozen+ flights, in only a standard bike bag). I built it on the cheap, and though I'd be upset of it were damaged, I wouldn't be crying my eyes out!

[Dingdong]

Here's one good to go, CAAD 12 frame with hydraulic brakes, £400 and no bids.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225265264700

[Nearholmer]

A good bit of this is likely to depend upon age, because of the way that normally affects maximum sustainable heart-rate and therefore power.

Some people, whether through genetic good fortune or training, hang onto the ability to sustain a high HR and power longer than others, but for most those things fall with age, driving people towards what once seemed like twiddly, granny gears.

[Dingdong]

A good bit of this is likely to depend upon age, because of the way that normally affects maximum sustainable heart-rate and therefore power.

Some people, whether through genetic good fortune or training, hang onto the ability to sustain a high HR and power longer than others, but for most those things fall with age, driving people towards what once seemed like twiddly, granny gears.

Agreed, but shaving even 5kg off your combined body/bike weight, has in my experience, been the biggest kindness you can do to yourself on long, steep European ascents.

[Nearholmer]

Or even short, steep English ones.

[iandusud]

Late in on this thread. A believe your Orbea uses Tiagra 4700 10 speed series gears. These are IMO one of the best that Shimano has produced, as they use a longer cable pull than previous 10 speed road iterations (I have 10 speed Ultegra on one of my bikes and it's no where near as good). I agree with a lot of what Cudgel says about the triple chainsets but as you have 2 x 10 set up at the moment in your shoes I would fit a sub compact double and stick with your current 11-34 cassette. How low you go depends very much on your fitness and peddling style. We have a 24x36 bottom gear on our touring tandem, which we load up with camping gear. I don't think I would consider that for an unladen road bike but you could go as low as 24x34 with your current cassette. I'm not convinced of the need for particularly high gears at the top end, however low gears are the way to go for hills.

[Jon in Sweden]

I've done a fair few Alpine passes and big Pyrenean climbs, a lot of them 10-25km in length, many of them 10%+. My twopenny worth is a little different from what's been said upthread, but here goes! I've also done some of the 'Raids' which are organised days, sometimes with several big passes on them, back to back and theyre great craic, just maybe not in the height of summer!

I find very small, twiddly gears next to useless, unless carrying heavy loads. You don't say if you'll be carrying bags, but from what you've said i've a feeling you won't be. My experience of long climbs, especially the Spanish and French ones is to find a gear you can pedal at a good cadence in without 'spinning' too much and stay in it. On climbs like Col d'Izoard for instance I would normally max out a comfortable cadence on a 36t up front and a 27t rear, still leaving me 3 gears to my grannie, which would be a 34. For the first few miles, when I'm feeling strongest I might even be rolling a 23/24t rear at a slower cadence.

Unless you are a commited climber, I'd also suggest doing the climb in 'chunks', 1-2 miles at a time, and a having a good breather/water stop between. I also find that after two days or so, your legs definitely get used to the bigger climbs and by the end of the week, even the big monsters don't look so intimidating and they can be tackled in one go.

Firstly, there's the elephant in the room, your weight! I'm normally 88-92kg, depending on the time of year, but if it were me looking to bag some big climbs, I'd definitely want to be in good shape and leaner before I set sail. You don't say how tall you are, but 105kg is a lot of mass to be lugging through vertical space. You will probably find losing 5-7kg will make a tremendous difference to your climbing ability, and if you're not carrying bags, I'd definitely be looking to shave a few KG off the bike. If your holiday is more than a month away, losing a kilogramme per week is relatively straightforward with calorie control and increase in exercise/intensity.

Secondly, slimming down your bike. This can de done quite cheaply if you shop around online/buy second hand. Lightweight tyres, like Continental Grand Prix 5000, good lightweight saddle, carbon post and stem, and Look Keo pedals will take a chunk off, and if you want another 1-1.5kg saved, a good set of lightweight wheels. The 8-10kg saved between your body mass/bike will make a huge difference and perhaps transform the experience.

I suppose it depends if this is a 'one off ' or if you would like to have a bike you can use regularly for this type of cycling. My go-to bike is a Cannondale CAAD 12, which I picked up pretty cheaply as a frame only (£180). It's astounding and stiff on big climbs, and I've kitted it out with a mix of older Dura ace and an Ultegra compact. The Dura Ace brakes are best in the business for caliper brakes and I've never felt anything other than safe, even at speeds of 100km/h plus on the big downhills. It's shod with an older pair of Mavic Kysirium ( bought for £100 locally)which really get the power down. All in, with modest Carbon parts it's 6.6kg. Which is 4kg lighter than my normal touring bike, unladen. I very rarely need to get out of the saddle with this set up, especially when I'm at my 'best' weight of 88kg.

This isn't just a 'hill special' bike build. I'll use it a lot in the summer months and it's generally my go-to holiday bike if I'm going abroad (it's not super fragile carbon, and has stood the test of a dozen+ flights, in only a standard bike bag). I built it on the cheap, and though I'd be upset of it were damaged, I wouldn't be crying my eyes out!

Thank you for your incredibly detailed and considered response!

I'm a good hill climber - slow but I've never in my life gotten off a bike to push. Even when I was a kid, grinding up hills on a 42/23.

I'm 6ft 8", which means that for my height, I'm quite lean. I do have a spare 5kg of fat that I'll shift over winter this year (taking me from about 15% BF to about 10%) but beyond that, there isn't much I can do. 100kg is a good and healthy weight for me. I still weight train a few times a week, though not seriously. I think it's important to maintain some upper body strength and the resistance work is good for bone density.

My lightest, stiffest bike is my Canyon Endurace CF. It's on 11 speed 105 with a 50/34 front and 11/32 back. It is 2XL, and whilst I've not weighed it, it is very light. Finding bikes in my size is always really tricky, but I lucked out with the Canyon.

My CV system is quite strong. I've done cycling and rowing over the years, as well as running, taekwondo and weight training. I once did a half marathon on a concept 2 rower (about 2 years ago) and my heart rate was over 170 for 40 minutes.

I'm only 6 months back on the bike after a long layoff, but I've done 6000km in that time and the fitness has come back well.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on alpine pass climbing too. The longest I've done is up to Dunkery Beacon on Exmoor, which is only about 400m elevation gain at 10%. I am a lot fitter now though, mercifully!

[Jon in Sweden]

A good bit of this is likely to depend upon age, because of the way that normally affects maximum sustainable heart-rate and therefore power.

Some people, whether through genetic good fortune or training, hang onto the ability to sustain a high HR and power longer than others, but for most those things fall with age, driving people towards what once seemed like twiddly, granny gears.

I'm 38 and the highest HR I've seen so far on climbs is 185. I think there is a bit more in there, and my max is perhaps 190. I cycle fairly regularly with a very fit 63 year old whose heart rate max is still over 200.

On longer rides, I've found that I can push 150-153 bpm as an average for over 3hrs. That's close to maximum effort though.

[Jon in Sweden]

Late in on this thread. A believe your Orbea uses Tiagra 4700 10 speed series gears. These are IMO one of the best that Shimano has produced, as they use a longer cable pull than previous 10 speed road iterations (I have 10 speed Ultegra on one of my bikes and it's no where near as good). I agree with a lot of what Cudgel says about the triple chainsets but as you have 2 x 10 set up at the moment in your shoes I would fit a sub compact double and stick with your current 11-34 cassette. How low you go depends very much on your fitness and peddling style. We have a 24x36 bottom gear on our touring tandem, which we load up with camping gear. I don't think I would consider that for an unladen road bike but you could go as low as 24x34 with your current cassette. I'm not convinced of the need for particularly high gears at the top end, however low gears are the way to go for hills.

I think I'd agree with your point. The four road/gravel bikes I have run 10 speed 105, 10 speed Tiagra, 10 speed Ultegra and 11 speed 105. The Tiagra is definitely the sweetest of the bunch. I don't know why.

[Nearholmer]

On longer rides, I've found that I can push 150-153 bpm as an average for over 3hrs. That's close to maximum effort though.

If we knew what power you exert at that HR, your cadence, and the weight of you and your bike, we could calculate an ideal gear ratio for a given gradient.

[Jon in Sweden]

On longer rides, I've found that I can push 150-153 bpm as an average for over 3hrs. That's close to maximum effort though.

If we knew what power you exert at that HR, your cadence, and the weight of you and your bike, we could calculate an ideal gear ratio for a given gradient.

I don't have a power meter, but punched the figures into a couple of online calculators the other day that on a max effort 90km ride into a headwind and over some 300m hills, that my average power average was somewhere between 340 and 370w.