Cycling UK Forum

We have a helsport lofoten pro 3, a three man tent with extended porch weighing 3.1kg. They do a two man version I think. Very stable 4 season tunnel tent, very aerodynamic shape. Materials are top drawer, they really are.

The good design feature has a porch that opens to one side and to the front opposite side. However with guylines pegged out you can open up the front completely.

It's perhaps not as big as most extended porch tents but IMHO a good tent for cycle touring. Plenty of room for two adults and a kid with panniers and other bags. Easily able to get out past your kit. Not sure about bikes in there.

If the OP got the 2 man version it'll be light enough, plenty of room for him plus kit, not bike I reckon, and it packs up very compactly. Our three man version packs into a single bag that fits inside a standard ortlieb pannier. Without even filling it up!

I'm not surprised there's few options for an extended vestibule one person tent, I doubt many people use any one person tent unless they're concerned about weight, in which case they're unlikely to add it!
I've not done a lot of winter camping and I'm unlikely to do any more. It isn't the cold I dislike but the long dark evenings. Simmering a stew in a cold, dark vestibule isn't my idea of fun. I'm not even sure the extra space will be much advantage, for a start bigger tents are colder. If I were planning to spend long nights in a tent, I'd be looking for things to keep me amused in the cosy inner rather than the colder outer.

pjclinch wrote: ↑29 Nov 2022, 7:57am
Lightwave used to do the t0xt solo extended tunnel which was exactly that, but I just had a look and it's no longer in the lineup.

Pete.

AFAICS it still is:
http://www.lightwave.uk.com/product/sho ... 10-trek-xt

It also has a hefty discount (£299 down to £199) if it is still available (I went to cart and it carried on so does appear to be there). I expect that PH and others are right in that there is little demand for it so they are selling it off. Shame as it is exactly what I meant. The colour and somewhat spikey design don't grab me but the general concept does.

I'm surprised Vango don't do a knock-off but again, most people who camp alone (hike, cycle, train, whatever) will probably go for a simple one-person design. Just to add that it is 1.95 kg.

PS Lightwave add that

The t10 trek & t10 trek xt are tunnel tents with 2 and 3 poles respectively. These tents were manufactured between 2012-15. 

Someone must have found one or two in the warehouse.

horizon wrote: ↑20 Dec 2022, 5:06pm

pjclinch wrote: ↑29 Nov 2022, 7:57am
Lightwave used to do the t0xt solo extended tunnel which was exactly that, but I just had a look and it's no longer in the lineup.

AFAICS it still is:
http://www.lightwave.uk.com/product/sho ... 10-trek-xt

It also has a hefty discount (£299 down to £199) if it is still available (I went to cart and it carried on so does appear to be there). I expect that PH and others are right in that there is little demand for it so they are selling it off. Shame as it is exactly what I meant. The colour and somewhat spikey design don't grab me but the general concept does.

Good spot. Lightwave seem to have renumbered stuff at some point, the t0 (as opposed to 10) was their original solo.

The spikiness comes from a deliberate use of a gothic arch because a pointed arch is stronger than a circular one... but the more I think about it the less I'm convinced that's a great idea in a tent. The extra strength at weight is handy if you're holding up a gothic cathedral roof where all the serious loading is always downwards, and I imagine it will work much better against snow loading, but for side on wind (typically your biggest problem in a tent, I'd have thought) I'm not at all sure it's any better, plus it means you have to faff a bit more with your poles and the design implementation gets fussier.

We looked at a bigger cousin back in the buying round that ended up with a Kaitum, originally comparing the t2xt to the Nallo GT, with Tiso's happy to pitch both for us to crawl around in. And once pitched we reckoned the Lightwave was nicer than the Hille, but the inner-first pitching is something I'm not keen on generally and inner-first combined with an extended porch that the inner doesn't support made pitching it far more awkward. Hilles are designed so one person can pitch them wearing mittens, I came away feeling the Lightwaves of the time... weren't!
The current range can go up either inner or outer first, but I've yet to see how that works in practice (though a look at a couple of videos on YouTube seem to suggest it works fine), but this last-one-in-the-warehouse won't be of that design.

Pete.

I'm still dithering about which style of tent might suit me best, and I suspect I'm turning away from the really long tents. I think any decision will wait until I get my new-to-me touring bike built up and see how it handles a load. I'll then decide where I fall on the ultra-lightweight to luxurious tent spectrum!

I emailed Lightwave regarding availability of the t10 xt and the other t10 variants, but didn't receive a reply. I also tried phoning, but haven't yet spoken to Carol, the owner of Lightwave - he phoned back, but I was unable to take his call.

There aren't too many Lightwave reviews on the Internet, but a few owners have mentioned leaky flysheets, plus there are a number of comments about poor customer service.

I've always avoided inner-first-pitching tents, but like the idea of taut inner, and possibly stronger structure. However, I'm not sure that a tunnel tent is the best style of tent for inner-first pitching.

A few years ago I bought an ultralight Terra Nova which pitched inner first, but the two times I've tried to pitch it on a campsite the wind was so strong it seemed the tent was on the verge of being wrecked, so I aborted and used a different tent I'd taken as backup (I was car-camping). Securing the outer to the inner with Velcro straps was also really fiddly, even when 'pitching' in the lounge! Tents like the Quasar don't appear to link the inner and outer tents.

deejayen wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 4:18pm
I've always avoided inner-first-pitching tents, but like the idea of taut inner, and possibly stronger structure. However, I'm not sure that a tunnel tent is the best style of tent for inner-first pitching.

I have a pair of Vango Helix (100 and 200) that pitch inner first (I had to think for a minute how that actually works and look at a photo! ). My Robens tunnel pitches outer first so it's quite useful to compare them.

I put up the Helix in a downpour somewhere in France and do remember fretting a bit about the inner getting wet. But it was so quick that it really didn't matter. It's a small tent though (the 100) and when I put the much bigger Robens up in torrential rain I was glad to put the outer up first. Inner first does give a well tensioned, non-sagging inner but the Robens is still very good. I do sometimes wonder about how well supported and tensioned the main part of either tent is (there is no pole or pegging) but that's for another thread.

FWIW, Lightwave's take on it is:

2012 (sic) has seen a new and highly significant addition to the Lightwave tent range. After a decade of “inner-first” pitched tents, Lightwave this year launches its first multi-pitch tunnel tents: the Trail and Hyper ranges. Although Lightwave remains a firm advocate of the inner-first pitching system (and steadfastly maintains this is the superior method if a tent is to withstand seriously strong winds), both its retailers and customers had vociferously requested that Lightwave brought its design intelligence and excellence to a more mainstream market.

Regarding the idea that inner-first is better if all else is equal in a blow... On the one hand maybe it is, but on the other if your tent is strong enough then whether it could be better is to some degree a bit of a moot point and the "just in case" argument has to be weighed against disadvantages that that feature produces every time you camp.

Given that the Hilleberg Keron is an all-in-one pitch tunnel and is also seemingly a de-facto go-to for polar ski touring where tent failure isn't an option, I would say it's a bit of an over-stated theoretical advantage.
However, if someone wants to point out that my preference for no PU coatings in the face of Quasars being used successfully up 8000m peaks for decades falls in to a similar category of practice beats theory... well, I'd have to concede the point. And this brings us to the point that while there are genuine performance differences between fabrics, layouts etc., at some point it comes down to gut feeling of what you like, the X-Factor if you will. Doesn't matter how good a tent's reviews are or what its theoretical advantages are, if you don't like it you won't enjoy camping in it much.

Pete.

deejayen wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 4:18pm There aren't too many Lightwave reviews on the Internet, but a few owners have mentioned leaky flysheets, plus there are a number of comments about poor customer service.

Can't comment first hand on the customer service having never had a Lightwave tent, but regarding leaking flys I'd note that since they use double-sided silicone coats the seams won't have been taped on historical examples so would involve a degree of DIY sealing to be sure. As noted elsewhere, this is actually A Feature Not A Bug!
Recent examples retain silicone coats each side but also have taped seams (Vau De are also using taped seams with silnylon), so I imagine this is less of an issue now.

Pete.

deejayen wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 4:18pm I emailed Lightwave regarding availability of the t10 xt and the other t10 variants, but didn't receive a reply. I also tried phoning, but haven't yet spoken to Carol, the owner of Lightwave - he phoned back, but I was unable to take his call.

I get the impression that it's a bit of a one-man outfit (I had never heard of it before), rather like Robert Saunders' operation in fact, not that either didn't/don't have staff. I think it's hard to strike a balance between a very small firm where there is a real personal commitment to some principle or other and a corporate behometh which has the resources to get everything right. Maybe specialist firms the size of Hilleberg are just about right. Having said that, I think Vango seem to have taken design very seriously and are now providing thousands (millions?) of less discerning and less knowledgeable customers with very good tents, whether they, the customers, realise it or not.

horizon wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022, 10:39am

deejayen wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 4:18pm I emailed Lightwave regarding availability of the t10 xt and the other t10 variants, but didn't receive a reply. I also tried phoning, but haven't yet spoken to Carol, the owner of Lightwave - he phoned back, but I was unable to take his call.

I get the impression that it's a bit of a one-man outfit (I had never heard of it before), rather like Robert Saunders' operation in fact, not that either didn't/don't have staff. I think it's hard to strike a balance between a very small firm where there is a real personal commitment to some principle or other and a corporate behometh which has the resources to get everything right. Maybe specialist firms the size of Hilleberg are just about right. Having said that, I think Vango seem to have taken design very seriously and are now providing thousands (millions?) of less discerning and less knowledgeable customers with very good tents, whether they, the customers, realise it or not.

Saunders really was a cottage industry (described as such by RS himself) but with some contracted Far East manufacture, I think a few other family members were involved. AIUI Lightwave contracts out all manufacture to the Far East, and that has been a source of problems in the past. For example, the current one-zip-in-the-middle doors on the unextended tents came about when some Crux X2s (Crux is a sister company) arrived from the factory like that, in contrary to the design that had been specified. As it happens CM seems to have felt it was a "happy accident" and persisted with it, but it does show you have to accept a degree of finger-crossing with QA if your stuff is being made a few thousand miles away by folks speaking another language. The bigger you are I imagine the less of a problem this is.

And while all I've read about Carol over the years suggests he's a Good Egg who makes very good stuff and will try and do right by you, if you've asked for a tent with the original Crux door design and all he can offer is the new style that's been imposed on him then there'd only be so much he could do about it.
I don't want to suggest one should never deal with small companies. At the end of the day consumer law will have your back, and you really can get some great stuff made by talented designers who don't have to do things The Established Way. Part of the price you pay for your expensive Big Brand is being very sure of what you'll get, and generally knowing how quickly you'll get it: both are genuinely useful things!

Pete.

pjclinch wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022, 2:34pm Saunders really was a cottage industry (described as such by RS himself) but with some contracted Far East manufacture, I think a few other family members were involved.
...

I read elsewhere on this forum, that RS chose Japanese Pu polyester due to better quality, but chinese manufacturing was satisfactory when making his polyester tents such as the Spacepacker Mk2, which made me wonder

1 what was the reason the Mk2s were made abroad and abandoned silnylon:

2 Was it simply to be able to meet demand or some other reason(s)? They weren't that much cheaper.

3 How well have the polyester mk2 Spacepackers lasted?

SA_SA_SA wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022, 7:51pm

pjclinch wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022, 2:34pm Saunders really was a cottage industry (described as such by RS himself) but with some contracted Far East manufacture, I think a few other family members were involved.
...

I read elsewhere on this forum, that RS chose Japanese Pu polyester due to better quality, but chinese manufacturing was satisfactory when making his polyester tents such as the Spacepacker Mk2, which made me wonder

1 what was the reason the Mk2s were made abroad and abandoned silnylon:

2 Was it simply to be able to meet demand or some other reason(s)? They weren't that much cheaper.

3 How well have the polyester mk2 Spacepackers lasted?

The nomenclature of "Mk 2" suggests it was the successor to the Mk 1, but in actuality was an alternative sold alongside. It was half a kilo heavier and a foot longer (along the pole, so even bigger porches). My impression was the point of the alternative was allowing a choice for what polyester does better (UV stability and less sag when wet) against what nylon does best (strength at weight, at least until it's been cooked by UV...).
The lack of sag was also a determining point on seam taping, this from the old Saunders website

"Polyester is woven from terylene fibres which expand much less than nylon when wet. This means there is less stress on the PU, meaning the taped seams are more reliable".

As to demand, sales, longevity etc., I don't know. I've never seen one in the flesh.
Another one I've never seen aside from on the Saunders website was the Orbit, a variation of the Spacepacker 1 with extra poles to give a stepped inner, so RS was seemingly aware that the standard inner was not to everyone's taste. But nothing's free, and the result was less aerodynamic, heavier and dearer, and I would imagine rather fiddlier to put up (the extra poles weren't integrated like the Akto's).

Regarding manufacture (noting this is pure conjecture on my part), outsourcing the polyester stuff may have been that it could be outsourced. Silnylon is apparently quite awkward to work with as it's so slippy, and as has been noted seaming needs good QA if they aren't sealed, so my guess is RS made the silnylon tents as he always had, and outsourcing enabled him to expand the range with more mainstream alternatives (e.g. the Mountain Trek was very much a Quasar-a-like in layout and overall design).

Pete.

Thanks. Very interesting.

Crux x2s? I was in Ambleside decades ago when there was a tent show in the way in in the grounds of a hotel. The shop involved was selling off a crux geodesic tent for £100! I wanted a new tent but at that time I was short of funds.i went into Ambleside and checked my bank balance then went back when I worked out I could afford it, but it was gone. A solid tent that was tested by pitching it out in the corrie caused by CMD arete under Ben Nevis for a year. It survived a bad winter too.

It was so cheap because I guy bought it then sent it back without asking fir his money back so the shop sent it back to crux who replaced the flysheet, poles and pegs before sending it back to the shop. Someone got a solid, bargain tent.

Crux/lughtwave used to be respected brand back in the day. Their ak range of sacks were light, very durable and a great carry for weights above most users would put in it. I wanted a lightwave tent once but my budget was more vango at the time.

Tangled Metal wrote: ↑23 Dec 2022, 8:15pm
Crux/lughtwave used to be respected brand back in the day. Their ak range of sacks were light, very durable and a great carry for weights above most users would put in it. I wanted a lightwave tent once but my budget was more vango at the time.

Any particular reason for using the past tense here?

I've never owned any Lightwave/Crux kit but it's still out there and when it gets reviewed it seems to come out well.

Pete.