Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

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Mike Sales
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Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Mike Sales »

Rail operator Northern has banned e-scooters and electric skateboards from all of its trains and stations.

The company said the devices' lithium batteries pose a fire risk if they overheat.

Electric wheelchairs, registered mobility scooters and e-bikes are exempt from the ban, which comes into force on Thursday.

Chief operating officer Tricia Williams said keeping passengers and staff safe was the "number one priority".

She said: "As these devices have become more and more popular, so have the horror stories of lithium batteries overheating and catching fire.

"Most of these devices are not actually approved for use in the UK - and our staff will refuse travel to anyone attempting to board one of our trains, or access one of our stations, with such a device."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63791319

I wonder why electric wheelchairs, registered mobility scooters and e-bikes are deemed safe? Have none of them ignited?
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hemo
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by hemo »

Typically lipo pouch cells are likely used with scooters , a more volatile chemistry.
The charging process is where most of the danger lies and over charging or simply leaving them on charge will cause the pouches to swell as the chemistry breaksdown, it is in this state that they are likely to catch fire. Give the small wheels, low position of battery placement and the jarring of those two combo's it is another possible danger factor.

Because of the thin platform of the scooter , lipos are easier fit in to small tight spaces.
Stevek76
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Stevek76 »

I think being not currently public land legal and generally a bit of a grey area product they're also far more likely to be made with very dubious quality control?

I suspect the same probably applies to the sort of cheap fat tyred ebikes offerings but it's a bit disproportionate to ban all ebikes just because of those.
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Nearholmer
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Nearholmer »

but it's a bit disproportionate to ban all ebikes just because of those.
Which is probably why they haven’t.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Tangled Metal »

We will see what happens tomorrow. There's a guy who gets on with an e-scooter as I'm getting off. I wonder if it'll be enforced? He's a big, confident mind of a guy so he might try to get on anyway.
deeferdonk
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by deeferdonk »

I wonder why electric wheelchairs, registered mobility scooters and e-bikes are deemed safe? Have none of them ignited?

I always assumed that previous e scooter bans on public transit were because of the likelihood of lower quality of the batteries and manufacture, and the abuse they may see during riding. E scooters more likely to be cheap, no-name mass produced items.

Even if there was a small risk of electric wheelchair batteries bursting into flames this would have to be weighed up against access for the disabled. I suppose there is the potential for any item with a battery to burst into flames but is a matter of minimising risk.
deeferdonk
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by deeferdonk »

Tangled Metal wrote: 30 Nov 2022, 6:59am We will see what happens tomorrow. There's a guy who gets on with an e-scooter as I'm getting off. I wonder if it'll be enforced? He's a big, confident mind of a guy so he might try to get on anyway.
Just wondering if you remove the battery from an e-scooter and put it in your bag is it just a scooter?!
hemo
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by hemo »

Mobility buggies / wheel chiars etc, likely use SLA or maybe LFP so fire risk isn't considered.
mei
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by mei »

Also banned on Transport for Wales trains.
All due to the fire risk and the difficulty in putting out that fire.
E-powered bikes with pedals are still allowed (legacy from SLA batteries) even though almost all share the same battery chemicals as the scooters.
mattheus
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by mattheus »

deeferdonk wrote: 30 Nov 2022, 7:36am
I wonder why electric wheelchairs, registered mobility scooters and e-bikes are deemed safe? Have none of them ignited?
<snip>
Even if there was a small risk of electric wheelchair batteries bursting into flames this would have to be weighed up against access for the disabled. I suppose there is the potential for any item with a battery to burst into flames but is a matter of minimising risk.
Exactly. No transport company would be stupid enough to ban electric wheelchairs or registered mobility scooters. Unless they were actually on fire when the "customer" entered the station!
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Vorpal »

I don't think this is justified.

In principle they are no different than e-bikes or Segways. The greatest risk of fire is during the charging process.

Small electric mobility devices, including e-scooters, e-bikes, electric skateboards, Segways, etc. are allowed on trains in other countries, explicitly so in many. Charging them on board is generally banned. Germany limits the length to 120 cm and policies of transport companies mostly say they must folded, but they are allowed on busses, trams, and trains. In the Nordic countries, they need to be folded if the bus/train/tram is busy. The guard might also ask people to stow them in a luggage rack.
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bikes4two
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by bikes4two »

I wonder if Cycling UK are looking into the growing dark cloud that is starting to form of the issue of lithium ion batteries whether in e-scooters, e-bikes etc.

This link here, albeit for a university in the USA, is one of what I suspect are many - hysteria will start unless countered in some way possibly leading to a downturn in e-bike sales.

Already you can anticipate the introduction of some sort of 'registered body' overseeing battery products and how they are used, followed then by restricted entry/usage of said battery unless certified to some beurocratic standard.
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Nearholmer
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Re: Northern bans e-scooters from trains and stations

Post by Nearholmer »

We have an oddly casual view of batteries, IMO, given how much energy they can release either electrically or through fire, and how quickly, and maybe it’s time for a good old-fashioned public information campaign to help people understand that they need to be looked after with care.

This is a very good guide https://www.zurich.co.uk/-/media/news-a ... july22.pdf
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