Navigation advice

[WEBH]

Right. Here we go again.

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice, this forum really is full of the best people!
You can probably see my ineptitude, but from the sound of it, it shouldn't stop me having a go. I've had a look at the cycle travel app, seems straightforward; how does one keep the screen open during the trip, google satnav seems to leave the screen on but other apps it goes off after a short time?
If I can manage a short trip with the cycle travel app running it'll probably give me confidence to look at a dedicated gps, lots of good suggestions so I'll do my homework on model choice.
I'll probably take the cicerone guides with me, I like a book, but ideally gps , probably backed up by paper maps, hopefully purchased en route.
Much appreciated suggestions re country names, something to bear in mind, as well as the 90 days, I hope to take no more than this but...!
My absolute ideal would be to map the whole route before going, would a gps device be able to cope with the amount of data for this? Obviously I might well amend as I go, I believe some devices can be used on the fly without internet connection, any suggestions here very welcome. The cicerone books apparently give me the chance to download a gpx file of the route, having bought new, which sounds great if I can manage it.
Many thanks to everyone so far, hope I'm not trying your patience too much!

[MrsHJ]

I put my routes in cycle travel, break them down by day and then sync using my phone to my garmin each day when I’m using it.

Cycle.travel (other brands are available) let’s you save your route overall and also by day so it’s the day version I use to transfer to the garmin. I have transferred a load of days before I’ve travelled before but if I change my mind or do a short or long day then I need to change it.

[ossie]

The phone versus Garmin can certainly divide opinion on here. I plan and download my routes (from cycle travel) onto a Garmin etrex. It takes AA batteries and a couple of lithiums will last 3-4 days so that takes away a potential charging headache. These things are also pretty bombproof, completely weatherproof but certainly not as user friendly as a phone. There's a bit of a learning curve in relation to downloading routes / tracks / POI's etc. I've previously downloaded 2500km routes without issue (done in daily chunks ) and literally follow the pre planned route / pink line on the Garmin screen.

Naturally I also take a phone but don't use it for general navigation (as its power hungry) unless I'm close to my destination / done for the day / need to change plans where google will literally guide me in. Best of luck, planning really is an enjoyable process.

[Jdsk]

...
My absolute ideal would be to map the whole route before going, would a gps device be able to cope with the amount of data for this? Obviously I might well amend as I go, I believe some devices can be used on the fly without internet connection, any suggestions here very welcome. The cicerone books apparently give me the chance to download a gpx file of the route, having bought new, which sounds great if I can manage it.
...

Modern satnav devices should be able to store the routes for the whole journey. (I rename each segment so that they come up in order.)

And to find an ad hoc route themselves when needed without network connection. But some work better than others at finding a suitable route for your preferred style of cycling.

Some types of navigation require maps to be already in the device. And maps can take a lot more memory than routes. On some devices it is necessary to swap maps in and out to fit, and that may require a network connection.

(My Edge 1000 has map coverage of Western Europe. I chose what was then a relatively high-end device so that the minimum fiddling and network access was needed when on the road.)

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The cicerone books apparently give me the chance to download a gpx file of the route, having bought new, which sounds great if I can manage it.

I've used their routes and they work fine. And there are lots of other free libraries of routes. And you can design your own using one of the many resources.

For me these are all very similar workflows. And I do them all before setting off, currently on a Mac and mounting the Garmin as a storage volume and dragging the routes on to it.

The big difference is between this family of methods and doing it on the road or using the device's built-in route planning.

Jonathan

[wirral_cyclist]

Phones also cost less, can have a longer battery life and be more weatherproof and robust.

No they mostly don't (price), no they mostly don't (battery), no they don't (weather and robust for common, cheap phones isn't a bet I'd take).

I briefly tried a Garmin Edge Explore before returning it for a refund. It was so damned slow. Calculating a 100 mile route was sloth like.

Well briefly isn't enoug then clearly, and 100 miles on anything not connected to internet isn't going to be quick is it?

[pete75]

Phones also cost less, can have a longer battery life and be more weatherproof and robust.

No they mostly don't (price), no they mostly don't (battery), no they don't (weather and robust for common, cheap phones isn't a bet I'd take).

I briefly tried a Garmin Edge Explore before returning it for a refund. It was so damned slow. Calculating a 100 mile route was sloth like.

Well briefly isn't enoug then clearly, and 100 miles on anything not connected to internet isn't going to be quick is it?

My mobile phone is quick connected to the web or not.
Briefly was enough to find the unit's drawbacks compared to a mobile. One of them is it's very poor screen, small and slow response to touch, another is the Garmin software isn't particularly good but you're stuck with it. The device won't run anything else.
A Doogee S86, for example, has an 8500mHa battery, costs about £130 on Aliexpress or Banggood and is IP68 and IP69 rated. As I said above a friend's S86 survived a few hours submerged in salt water.

[ossie]

Charge time for that phone is prohibitive, weight and size likewise, in other words its a brick. Not everyone has a dyno hub.

[Ayseven]

It is not "either/or". The trips can be planned on cycle.travel, and sent to Garmin Connect and your head unit. The phone is a backup, and still very handy for finding shops and things in the towns - this way you can see street views of where you want to end up etc.. Keep the screen off the phone, and the battery life is pretty good. The screen can be on all the time if you want on a Garmin, but it also has battery save mode, which turns it off. So I like using both, and do on almost every ride. By the way, you can get the phone calls to show up on some Garmins too, if you like that sort of thing, and then call the person back when you get a chance. It also does tracking, so you never have to call home! That bit is up to you.

[francovendee]

.

Cycle.travel (other brands are available) let’s you save your route overall and also by day so it’s the day version I use to transfer to the garmin.

Yes, but none as good.

[Galactic]

OK, really basic question about turn by turn navigation.
I've read on various posts on this forum about navigation devices 'speaking', ("turn left here"). Do people have an earpiece plugged in / bluetooth, or are these things just loud enough to hear over traffic and wind?

[ANTONISH]

OK, really basic question about turn by turn navigation.
I've read on various posts on this forum about navigation devices 'speaking', ("turn left here"). Do people have an earpiece plugged in / bluetooth, or are these things just loud enough to hear over traffic and wind?

My etrex will give an audible signal when approaching a turn but I usually don't bother with that function.
Usually if I'm touring I'm anticipating a junction anyway - I've usually planned the route on a paper map and used "Ride with gps" to plot a route to download - even "basecamp" works.
It's surprising how versatile the Garmin is - I've used the "where to ?" function to give driving directions for a car trip of several hundred kilometres (my partner holds the etrex 30 which gives bleeps on approacing a junction togeher with o screen instructions).
As has been pointed out the etrex 30 is robust and waterproof and is very good on battery life (screen can illuminate which slightly reduces battery life)
OTOH my smartphone uses Google maps and the maps are updated in real time i.e they will register road closures and give the current diversion route. I generally only use that in a car but I can hear the voice instructions cycling. Very handy for locating a hotel etc.

[Tigerbiten]

A lot will come back to power usage on tour and where do you get the electrons from.

Charging overnight in a campsite office/loo is ok until you get to an area where campsites are very few and far between.
Powering off a hub dynamo via a USB cable is ok, until you ride in the rain and then are all the connections waterproof.
Is it ok to pull electrons from the wall when you stop for lunch and do you know enough of the local language to ask.
If you do a few short/slow days, will a hub dynamo generate more saved power than you use.
If no mains power, how many days can you go before you run out of power.

All questions you really need the answers to before you set out.
And the more devices you have and the more power hungry your devices are, the more vital you need to know the answers to them.

Luck .........

[roubaixtuesday]

All of which continues to convince me that unless you're in an urban area, a decent map mounted in a waterproof holder on a bar bag is far and away the best solution, with a phone as backup just in case of getting actually lost. I use ortleib, reassuringly expensive...

In an urban area, I can see the attraction of turn by turn, though if it's a previously unknown place, I have my doubts on the ability of the various apps to choose an appropriate route.

[PM999]

Just a word of caution to the OP re choice of unit if going the Garmin route. You specifically mention the 530. This is essentially a powerful bike activity monitoring computer with navigation/maps added on. It doesn't navigate exactly the same way as a touring oriented unit - there is no search/entry of addresses on the go and no points of interest database. It's fine for pre loaded routes, but if you need to navigate "on the fly", it won't be as easy as a tour biased unit. (I believe you need to scroll the map & drop a pin by pushing a button to navigate to that point using a 530).

I have a (very) old Edge Touring for my needs and it works well, if a bit slow. The battery hasn't yet degraded to the point where it lets me down at the end of a long day.