Navigation advice

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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al_yrpal
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by al_yrpal »

Google maps is fine for navigation with the proviso that you have downloaded the background map for the area you are travelling through first. On numerous occasions, even on motorways guidance has suddenly disappeared when the phone signal is lost. It can often take quite a time to get it restored and you can easily lose your way. Google maps has great features for estimating accurate arrival times which are intelligently computed from the density and movement of multiple mobile phone signals. And its red and amber lines gives an indication of traffic delays. So, its fine for car travel with a preloaded map.
My choice for cycle touring is Osmand+ on my phone loaded with routes calculated by cycle.travel, and a battery pack to augment the phones battery. Osmand+ will give voice directions too which I like very much.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

Galactic wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:32am OK, really basic question about turn by turn navigation.
I've read on various posts on this forum about navigation devices 'speaking', ("turn left here"). Do people have an earpiece plugged in / bluetooth, or are these things just loud enough to hear over traffic and wind?
I have this experience (by accident). When I'm expecting an important phone call (i.e. one that can't be missed) I've taken to enabling Siri (iPhone voice commands) and cycling with ear bud(s) in (no music playing so no distraction, can still hear everything as they are non-sealing type). And suddenly I was getting "In 200 feet take the left turn" in my ear bud! Quite a shock. Seems my new Garmin by default has spoken navigation announcements enabled and was sending the spoken navigation instructions from Garmin -> phone -> earbuds.

Worked well; though I leave Garmin screen on (battery life is unbelievably excellent with it on). That said I was on rural roads so not hearing over traffic noise.

But I find the quiet'ish beep the Garmin makes prior to an on-screen instruction loud enough to attract attention so I disabled the spoken navigation instructions.

Ian
st599_uk
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by st599_uk »

al_yrpal wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 10:53am Google maps is fine for navigation with the proviso that you have downloaded the background map for the area you are travelling through first. On numerous occasions, even on motorways guidance has suddenly disappeared when the phone signal is lost. It can often take quite a time to get it restored and you can easily lose your way. Google maps has great features for estimating accurate arrival times which are intelligently computed from the density and movement of multiple mobile phone signals. And its red and amber lines gives an indication of traffic delays. So, its fine for car travel with a preloaded map.
Not all aspects of Google Maps are implemented in all regions - check their up to date chart before relying on it.

For example, Portugal doesn't have cycling directions, Canary Islands don't have cycling, driving or the traffic overlay.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
st599_uk
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by st599_uk »

Psamathe wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 11:26am
Worked well; though I leave Garmin screen on (battery life is unbelievably excellent with it on). That said I was on rural roads so not hearing over traffic noise.

But I find the quiet'ish beep the Garmin makes prior to an on-screen instruction loud enough to attract attention so I disabled the spoken navigation instructions.
Which Garmin device is that?
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
Psamathe
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

st599_uk wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 12:56pm
Psamathe wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 11:26am
Worked well; though I leave Garmin screen on (battery life is unbelievably excellent with it on). That said I was on rural roads so not hearing over traffic noise.

But I find the quiet'ish beep the Garmin makes prior to an on-screen instruction loud enough to attract attention so I disabled the spoken navigation instructions.
Which Garmin device is that?
Used to have the 1030 but broke it so now (and posted experience) is with the 1040 Solar. I don't use the fitness functionality but really like the screen size. On tour summer this year the solar functionality made a good difference to need for charging.

Expensive but if buying again I's still stretch to the same device.

Ian
scribes
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by scribes »

Hi WEBH,
If you haven't already read Patrick Leigh Fermor's two books on his journey to Constantinople from Rotterdam, on foot mainly, in the early 1930s I suggest you do so. They are entitled "A Time of Gifts" and "Between the Woods and the Water". Maybe you have, of course, and that is why you have chosen to cycle that way!!? I realise this has nothing to do with GPS - PLF used maps.
Good luck.
ANTONISH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by ANTONISH »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 10:12am All of which continues to convince me that unless you're in an urban area, a decent map mounted in a waterproof holder on a bar bag is far and away the best solution, with a phone as backup just in case of getting actually lost. I use ortleib, reassuringly expensive...

In an urban area, I can see the attraction of turn by turn, though if it's a previously unknown place, I have my doubts on the ability of the various apps to choose an appropriate route.
Google maps will give a cycling route if wanted.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 5:40pm
Google maps will give a cycling route if wanted.
Not a cycling route for this plan though. It does cycling routes in Western Europe but doesn’t seem to for Turkey or Romania. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t refer to it but you’d probably want other sources of info.

Having said that quite a lot of people do cycle onto Istanbul either from the end of EV6 or by cutting down off EV6 from say Belgrade. Good sources on route info might be crazyguyonabike, the Facebook cycle touring groups or people here who’ve done it.
WEBH
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Hi again all, another few gems in the info for me to ponder, for which very many thanks!
In the interests of trying something practical, I registered on cycle travel and asked it to plot a route for me, which I then opened with komoot; komoot suggested a return route (good idea,that!), the routes then meshed together and I set off for a happy 100 odd k on freezing misty Shropshire lanes. Routes were absolutely ace, both apps gave me wonderful quiet lanes which I hadn't been on before (fairly new to the area anyway). However the main thing was to see if I could actually use some technical means - and I can!
Loved the komoot turn by turn voice directions, the only issue was the phone battery, which was down to 20% by the end. It's a newish model which is normally ok, so I guess I am heading for a Garmin; I'm also not sure about data usage everywhere on the phone, talkmobile are a bit cagey about where they cover, certainly not turkiye though..
Thanks to all for model advice, I quoted the 530 as I'd read about it somewhere; I didn't know there were so many, but from the sound of it an etrex model with both rechargeable and replacement batteries could be the answer. I can spend a happy few days checking them out.
The idea of being able to input most of the route is ideal; when I need to depart from the cicerone plan to head through Bulgaria, I'll hopefully be a seasoned enough navigator to plot my own way.
Thanks once again to everyone for the comments, it's been really helpful and encouraging.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by MrsHJ »

Sounds like a sound plan.

Even if you don’t use your phone for route finding you’ll be wanting to manage battery use over a long day so I’d also check out how to do that. I disconnect things like teams (very battery hungry), turn off the Bluetooth, turn off the Wi-Fi, make sure you’re on no background data usage etc etc (there are some good summaries on what to do online). You’ll also want to manage your roaming, mine is capped at 12gb a month and I easily manage within that even touring with my 4g on sometimes for nav. PS investigate vodaphone for roaming that includes Turkey.

I also have a power bank as a back up (and although I haven’t used it yet my new to me bike has a usb hub charger)- these can be useful for a garmin or a phone etc. some people do ok with a solar charger.
simonhill
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by simonhill »

I always read these type of posts with interest.

What I don't understand is why the bike satnav type devices are so expensive. This is compared to a car version or a mobile phone. Generally the bike specific devices seem basic, small screen and clunky compared to smartphones.

Is it profiteering?
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by roubaixtuesday »

ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 5:40pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 10:12am All of which continues to convince me that unless you're in an urban area, a decent map mounted in a waterproof holder on a bar bag is far and away the best solution, with a phone as backup just in case of getting actually lost. I use ortleib, reassuringly expensive...

In an urban area, I can see the attraction of turn by turn, though if it's a previously unknown place, I have my doubts on the ability of the various apps to choose an appropriate route.
Google maps will give a cycling route if wanted.
Yes indeed.

The "cycling routes" it recommends to me in my local area range from busy urban routes seemingly to avoid very minor hills, to bog filled offroad lanes only passable even on a full MTB if frozen in winter. An OS map is miles better (the OS App is miles better too). There's no way I'd trust it in an unknown city. Perhaps others have better experiences.
st599_uk
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Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by st599_uk »

ANTONISH wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 5:40pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 10:12am All of which continues to convince me that unless you're in an urban area, a decent map mounted in a waterproof holder on a bar bag is far and away the best solution, with a phone as backup just in case of getting actually lost. I use ortleib, reassuringly expensive...

In an urban area, I can see the attraction of turn by turn, though if it's a previously unknown place, I have my doubts on the ability of the various apps to choose an appropriate route.
Google maps will give a cycling route if wanted.
Not in Türkiye, Bulgaria, Romania...
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
st599_uk
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Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by st599_uk »

simonhill wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 8:47am I always read these type of posts with interest.

What I don't understand is why the bike satnav type devices are so expensive. This is compared to a car version or a mobile phone. Generally the bike specific devices seem basic, small screen and clunky compared to smartphones.

Is it profiteering?
They are quite expensive, but they're lower volume manufacturers than Smartphones so you have a number of problems:
  • the associated costs of design, manufacture, R&D, software licences are split between fewer sales
  • the chipsets are bought in much smaller numbers compared to a Smartphone manufacturer
  • lockdowns in China have thrown supply chains in to disarray - I'm regularly quoted 18 months on kit which would normally be 2-3 weeks, so manufacturer's a buying and storing and pushing the price up.
Still - would be nice for an option to say supply your own maps to save the cost.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
rareposter
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by rareposter »

st599_uk wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 11:04am Still - would be nice for an option to say supply your own maps to save the cost.
The coding for the device to cope with any random format of imported maps would be a nightmare plus I'm willing to bet the majority of people buying a GPS want it with maps in the first place - that's the reason for buying a satnav!

Having the capacity to upload further maps or update the existing ones, I get. But buying a device from new, you want it with at the very least a decent basemap of your region.
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