Navigation advice

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Jdsk »

As above:

• Not all Garmins are the same. But the OP's needs are now much clearer.

• But when touring I only use the in-device route finding for small tasks such as corrections, as I have loaded the main components of the route before setting off. The in-device route finding works fine on the Edge 1000, and I assume that the same is true of its successors within that family. But note the importance of having the maps already loaded for when you need them.

Jonathan
WEBH
Posts: 104
Joined: 1 Jul 2022, 5:43pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Right, I contacted a reputable supplier of garmins today, and got a very definite 'no' for any of the cheaper models when using a phone - the steer was towards a 66sr at £424 for this purpose, but as well as the cost the blurb for this one didn't really seem as if it's primary user would be the cyclist. Decent battery life mind. I may not have been as clear as I ought in the tiny text box..
I'm sure I can enlist help to load routes onto one of the devices suggested here, I have tech savvy kids after all. The whole route pre loaded before departure sounds good, although the model suggested which allows standalone en route will help later on the journey. Which one was this please?
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by rareposter »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:02pm The whole route pre loaded before departure sounds good, although the model suggested which allows standalone en route will help later on the journey. Which one was this please?
They'll all take that - what you don't want is to create one route from start to finish cos the file will be MASSIVE and any slight recalculation will take forever.
The files should ideally be uploaded as Day 1, Day 2 etc.
If you decide to change one of the days, you can just upload a new file via a Bluetooth connection from whatever route planning app you're using on the phone.

The mistake that a lot of people make is assuming they can just bang a GPS onto the bars and it'l do what they want - chances are it won't and you'll need to learn how it responds with recalculating routes within the device, the mapping/routes that you're sending to it and the settings within both the device and the route planning.

It's not complicated - it's actually not dissimilar to learning how to use any other mapping like reading a paper map - but it's an essential part of your preparation.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Jdsk »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:02pm ...
I'm sure I can enlist help to load routes onto one of the devices suggested here, I have tech savvy kids after all. The whole route pre loaded before departure sounds good, although the model suggested which allows standalone en route will help later on the journey. Which one was this please?
I mentioned the Edge 1000, but there are later models in that series: the 1030 Plus and the 1040.

There's a comparison function on the Garmin UK site:
https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/c/sports-f ... allcycling

if you could give us a price range that will help to keep the next round of suggestions appropriate. : - )

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Jdsk »

rareposter wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:10pm...
They'll all take that - what you don't want is to create one route from start to finish cos the file will be MASSIVE and any slight recalculation will take forever.
The files should ideally be uploaded as Day 1, Day 2 etc.
...
Yes, lots of individual routes. Mine are typically one day.

And it helps enormously if they contain some information that results in them appearing on the device in the correct sequence for the trip.

Jonathan

PS: IIRC that display sequence depends on a piece of data within each route rather than on the name of the route. But we can get to that later.
PM999
Posts: 102
Joined: 6 Sep 2016, 11:56am

Re: Navigation advice

Post by PM999 »

st599_uk wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 6:04pm
PM999 wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 5:04pm Garmin's own routeable maps of Europe include Turkey. I've just sparked up my venerable old Edge Touring & the attached pic is of Ankara. It seems to include all the POI stuff - restaurants, hotels etc. per the icons visible.

IMG_20221202_163815.jpg
My Garmin has for the European part of Turkiye, but not the Asian par
That's interesting. Which Garmin mapset? The "Routable Cycling 2021.20" map I have seems to include all of Turkey. Examples picked at random: Van, way out east heading for Iran; Gaziantep, close to the Syrian border; Trabzon, a sizeable Black Sea resort towards Georgia - all showing street level mapping and POI/gazette icons for hotels, restaurants etc.
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:02pm ... although the model suggested which allows standalone en route will help later on the journey. Which one was this please?
Probably several and probably not all. I can only say for sure of two top end (and v. expensive), the 1030 and 1040. I'm sure some lower models will but I've no idea which.

I used the 1030 to create for routes each evening for tomorrow for 1 month (last half os 2 month tour in EU). Used off-route recalculations on the 1040 a bit over 5 weeks this summer.

Ian
PH
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
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Re: Navigation advice

Post by PH »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:02pm Right, I contacted a reputable supplier of garmins today, and got a very definite 'no' for any of the cheaper models when using a phone - the steer was towards a 66sr at £424 for this purpose, but as well as the cost the blurb for this one didn't really seem as if it's primary user would be the cyclist. Decent battery life mind. I may not have been as clear as I ought in the tiny text box..
Was the dealer fully up to date? I can't think of anything you might need that the newer Garmin Explore 2 doesn't provide, I can load routes from my phone seamlessly via Bluetooth. About £250.
Full in depth review here
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/07/gar ... eview.html
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

PH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:27pm
WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:02pm Right, I contacted a reputable supplier of garmins today, and got a very definite 'no' for any of the cheaper models when using a phone - the steer was towards a 66sr at £424 for this purpose, but as well as the cost the blurb for this one didn't really seem as if it's primary user would be the cyclist. Decent battery life mind. I may not have been as clear as I ought in the tiny text box..
Was the dealer fully up to date? I can't think of anything you might need that the newer Garmin Explore 2 doesn't provide, I can load routes from my phone seamlessly via Bluetooth. About £250.
Full in depth review here
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/07/gar ... eview.html
Most dealers will claim they are "reputable" but may o may not have adequate knowledge. DC Rainmaker is an excellent source. Dealers' main aims are to separate you from your money (ideally making as much profit as they can).

Some big online dealers are a disaster. That you are using an text box - I wouldn't be taking advice from such sources.

Ian
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by rareposter »

Buy your device from a reputable bike shop or from the web store of the device in question (so if you're after a Garmin, buy it from Garmin's UK store - https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/ )

Big online retailers (like Amazon) are fine but they can get very confusing as they often have devices going back a few years and it can be tricky to find the one you actually want - what you don't want is to find yourself with something that's been sitting on a shelf for 2 years or is one model out of date.

Second the comment about DC Rainmaker - probably the very best source of info on all cycling GPS devices. Independent tester, known and trusted by all the GPS manufacturers and a long term presence online with his reviews.
WEBH
Posts: 104
Joined: 1 Jul 2022, 5:43pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by WEBH »

Thanks everyone we're getting there! Had a quick look at some of the options, think the 1040 is a bit out of my budget. The 1030 and explore 2 look good, if the explore has the ability to replot 'in the field ' that could be the answer. I'll take some time to digest DC rainmaker and take it from there.
Appreciate the comments about getting the days planned out separately, I imagine if one put in a longer or shorter day this shouldn't be an issue?
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by rareposter »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 9:28pm Appreciate the comments about getting the days planned out separately, I imagine if one put in a longer or shorter day this shouldn't be an issue?
Not really.
Depends a bit on your day. If you have a booked night of accommodation, then you can route directly to it, no issues. If you're playing it by ear and hoping to find a random campsite/B&B etc, then you can route to a general area then use the phone to start finding places. The last few miles is often easier to route in via phone but you can create a route in the device from your current location to wherever you've found accommodation if required.

It's one of those things that takes a bit of practice, finding what the GPS will calculate and how quickly and then working out how often you plan on doing that.
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

WEBH wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 9:28pm Thanks everyone we're getting there! Had a quick look at some of the options, think the 1040 is a bit out of my budget. The 1030 and explore 2 look good, if the explore has the ability to replot 'in the field ' that could be the answer. I'll take some time to digest DC rainmaker and take it from there.
Appreciate the comments about getting the days planned out separately, I imagine if one put in a longer or shorter day this shouldn't be an issue?
I had the 1030 which is the model before the 1030 Plus you are probably looking at (1030 no longer available). 1030 Plus is better than the 1030 (obvious really), The 1030, 1030 Plus and 1040s have loads of features aimed at fitness enthusiasts (Strava Segments, all sorts of fitness indicators) so they are high end and to some extent you are paying for all those fitness features you probably don't want. But they also have all the navigation features.

I got my 1030 mid-tour in Belgium and I could only buy what the shop had there and then which was the 1030. Although lots of fitness features it also has all the navigation features (high end = put in everything, all features). I loved it and for ages recognised that if buying again I'd buy the same model. But my fault entirely i broke it and as the 1040 was due waited to get the 1040 (I got the Solar version as I was mainly wanting it for camping tours and built-in solar charging was a good feature for me).

So on the 1030/1040 you would be getting a lot of fitness features you may not need but they are still excellent for navigation.

How you organise your routes is best determined after playing around with the device. My route each evening for tomorrow is just the way I tour - no destination, no agenda. Reality is is might do tomorrow and a contingency day after and just in case contingency the day after that so if I get stuck or no time or anything at least I can go somewhere; but those routes will be redone evening before I ride as maybe they'll be to somewhere different. Suits me but not others as we all tour differently.

I find the re-routing when you go off-track very useful as you always come across roadworks, closed roads or just spot somewhere interesting to detour to. Automatic rerouting makes life a lot easier. Garmin's on-device off-route recalculation used to be not great but a few years ago a software update improved it massively and I'm quite impressed with it these days. I mention this as if you see people being critical of Garmin off-route recalculation, check when the review/criticism was written.

i don't know the Explore model so cannot make any comment about its functionality (so I'm not pushing the 1030/40, just I have experience of the).

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by Psamathe »

Also, @ WEBH, if you have https://cycle.travel questions there is an ongoing thread on the forum viewtopic.php?p=1740385#p1740385. We are fortunate in that the developer participates on this forum.

Ian
st599_uk
Posts: 1091
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Navigation advice

Post by st599_uk »

PM999 wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 7:23pm
st599_uk wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 6:04pm
PM999 wrote: 2 Dec 2022, 5:04pm Garmin's own routeable maps of Europe include Turkey. I've just sparked up my venerable old Edge Touring & the attached pic is of Ankara. It seems to include all the POI stuff - restaurants, hotels etc. per the icons visible.

IMG_20221202_163815.jpg
My Garmin has for the European part of Turkiye, but not the Asian par
That's interesting. Which Garmin mapset? The "Routable Cycling 2021.20" map I have seems to include all of Turkey. Examples picked at random: Van, way out east heading for Iran; Gaziantep, close to the Syrian border; Trabzon, a sizeable Black Sea resort towards Georgia - all showing street level mapping and POI/gazette icons for hotels, restaurants etc.
Edge Touring - I think the main issue may be the limited 16GB storage that Garmin use. (Shame their new Edge Explore 2 has 16GB and no SD Card slot)
A novice learning...
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